Human nature in Christian tradition..

[Watchtower]

is a class Trouble is taking this semester at Otterbein College here.. *I see everyones eyes rolling now

But anyway, she brought home her syllabus and there's some pretty interesting stuff.. She brought home a copy of this article from theonion.com God clarifies Don't Kill rule..

 

It does have a couple of bad words so use the 6 second delay where necessary..

Tell me what you think..

 

*edit. I just noticed a coupla extra bad words, let me know if it's too much..

[Watchtower]

I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time," God said. "The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades.

 

I thought the part about the buddhists was kinda funny

 

You guys really should read this.

[Playaa]

the Onion always has funny stuff...will get to it tomorrow morning

I would like to see more stuff from her class though...not quite sure what it's about really...I tend to want to roll my eyes when overly philisophical ideas get brought up...but it's not like I really disdain learning and thinking...it's just that I really think that we THINK too much and don't act enough...when people spend hours and hours debating the true nature of an object and what it really means in comparison to the universe...I just want to slap them and tell them to go help and old lady clean out her house....basically stop talking about what life COULD be and live life like it SHOULD be....

but anyway...I'm still interested

[Watchtower]

Well this has relevance to many other threads.. Like the capital punishment SOUL!

[Watchtower]

She does have this other paper she brought home but I refrained from posting.. Kind of like rhetorical questions about old testament type rules.. THe ones everyone likes to forget about or dismiss.. I'll post it anyway since Playaa is interested.. Keep in mind the class is being taught by devout methodist.

[Watchtower]

Open Letter to Dr. Laura..

 

was handed out to the people in the class..

[Playaa]

Kind of like rhetorical questions about old testament type rules..THe ones everyone likes to forget about or dismiss.. 

you don't know the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant?

Edited April 2, 2004 by Playaa/Pselus

[Watchtower]

Jesus?

[Crowbar]

That's freakin hilarious Watch. I love the Onion. And actually, it's a fairly accurate picture of history and probably pretty close to what God would say if He came down and did a press conference. However, God is not totally against war, at least, as far as I know. I won't speak for Him, He told us Himself, in the Bible. There is a lot of bloodshed in the Bible. The Passion movie was taken from just a few chapters. A movie about some of the Old Testament battles would be more bloody then that. And many (perhaps all) of those battles were carried out in God's will. Now, I'm not talking "in God's name" like the Crusades, I mean that God actually spoke to Samson, Gideon, Joshua and others and said get together your men, grab your swords, and go butcher these people. In other battles, God guided heathen kings to lead their armies on Israel and slaughter them, as punishment for idolatry, immorality and more idolatry. (Israel had a big problem with forgetting God). God isn't a wuss. He said we should not kill. And we shouldn't. However I believe in certain (rare) cases it is okay. And I can't really think of any case since WWII that it has been okay.

[soul .gc]

Well this has relevance to many other threads.. Like the capital punishment SOUL!

 

It does? I think perhaps you do not know God and Jesus very well. They are not pacifists.

 

The Dr. Laura letter is funny though, I have quoted it several times in discussions here against ZD in the past. Leviticus is an interesting book but after the coming of Jesus most of the laws were done away with from this chapter.

[Playaa]

y'know...I just thought of something...this never hit me before.

Christians live by the New Covenant and we say tha tthe Old Covenant doesn't hold anymore...yet the 10 commandments were under the Old Covenant..........

the thing is...that if you live by the new covenant which commands to love your neighbor as yourself and love the lord your God with all your heart....if you live by that...then you'll be following the 10 commandments...

 

*edit*

I really am trying to open a discussion here...the 10 commandments were part of the Old Covenant...so why do Christians still "enforce" them?

Edited April 2, 2004 by Playaa/Pselus

[Watchtower]

Well this has relevance to many other threads.. Like the capital punishment SOUL!

 

It does? I think perhaps you do not know God and Jesus very well. They are not pacifists.

 

The Dr. Laura letter is funny though, I have quoted it several times in discussions here against ZD in the past. Leviticus is an interesting book but after the coming of Jesus most of the laws were done away with from this chapter.

Most? lol. WHich ones do You choose to keep and why? Pick and choose huh? i like it. Convenient.

[dwEEziL]

Actually, Jesus fulfilled the old covenant. The Levitical laws and sacrifices were put into place to act as a covering for our sins. God agreed to "look over" our sins until such a time as a perfect sacrifice could be provided to completely wash us of our sins. Jesus provided that perfect sacrifice thus releasing us from the old covenant. He has made the sacrifice to cover all sin for all time. We just have to accept this gift from Him to be free.

 

Now does that make it is ok for us to do whatever we want? Yes...with a disclaimer. The Apostle Paul says that all things are lawful but not are things are good. Whereas we are not bound by any law constraints, making all things allowable for us, not all things are profitable to our spiritual, physical, moral growth. That is where we seek guidance through prayer and reading of the scriptures. It is likened to "daily bread". Our daily sustenance.

Edited April 2, 2004 by dwEEziL

[Watchtower]

Playaa, that's what I'm talking about. My thoughts exactly.

Dweeze, if thats the way you have to look at it ok. But that seems awfully dangerous allowing a human to ultimately determine what is wrong and right. Like our Government. THen having all of the people in the land follow them to hell. THat is why Conscientous Objectors do not tolerate much behavior and condemn it. Save yourself while you have a chance

Dweeze, I have to say you are wrong tho going by the opinions of your fellow Christians.. Like Playaa said, many of you still hold onto much of the "old covenant" while you are supposed to be forgetting it.

 

Soul, I've never once seen any mention of Jesus telling someone killing was ok.. Cmon Christians, set your brother straight! He said TURN THE OTHER CHEEK! Now God on the other hand advocated Much killing and violence. I realize that. And That fact is often swept under the rug. Like when I said that about the bible being filled with violence and PLayaa disagreed. So many differing opinions on what you say is "cut and dry" and without error.

[dwEEziL]

Watch, if you seek after God through prayer and scriptures, you will end up following much of the old covenant. (I say much and not all because God favors obedience over ritual, just as He favored David's actions in giving the shew bread, reserved for the priests, to his men when they were starving.)

 

We will not be deciding what is right or wrong by ourselves. We will be waiting on God for the answer. Some of it is easy. The bible says that all authority is granted by God. That means that the gov't placed over us is in place by God and as such, we are to abide by it. One caveat was given though. We are to abide by it as long as doing so doesn't cause us to violate the will of God. This could often mean that we will face ramifications for this action or inaction but that is something we as Christians need to decide to be faithful in, for God is also faithful (for example, Daniel was commanded to stop praying to God and to pray only to the king. He refused to do this and was subsequently condemned to spend the night in a den of half-starved lions. God blessed Daniel's faithfulness by sealing the mouths of the lions and saving Daniel).

 

It might seem to the outside world the we Christians just arbitrarily choose what is right and wrong for ourselves but if one is truly seeking after the heart of God in all matters, and the heart of God is love for all and a desire to see all come to salvation through Jesus Christ, then our heart will be in the right place and we will make the correct decision.

[Playaa]

Like when I said that about the bible being filled with violence and PLayaa disagreed.

mind posting a link to that? cause I'd be stupid to say the Bible wasn't full of violence...I'm pretty sure I was disagreeing with something else you said there...I know the OT is filled with wars like crazy...

 

and Dweez is explaining my feelings rather well...but I'm gonna hafta pursue this whole 10 commandments thing...

 

I would however like to quote this for it's "correctness"

It might seem to the outside world the we Christians just arbitrarily choose what is right and wrong for ourselves but if one is truly seeking after the heart of God in all matters, and the heart of God is love for all and a desire to see all come to salvation through Jesus Christ, then our heart will be in the right place and we will make the correct decision. - dweezil

[Playaa]

Fact is the bible is full of intolerance and violence.

- Watchtowers origional quote

and I said to it

"the Bible is NOT full of intolerance and violence" but I was specifically speaking about the intolerance Watch...didn't really mean to include violence in there...my bad

[soul .gc]

Most? lol. WHich ones do You choose to keep and why? Pick and choose huh? i like it. Convenient.

 

Perhaps educating yourself before making comments like this would help in the future.

 

Soul, I've never once seen any mention of Jesus telling someone killing was ok

 

Where did I say he did? You sure do like to put words in people's mouths.

 

So many differing opinions on what you say is "cut and dry" and without error.

 

Really? It is my opinion and to me I believe the bible does support Capital Punishment as long as it is not carried out by individuals but by the government.

[Watchtower]

Perhaps educating yourself before making comments like this would help in the future.

 

And the problem with that comment? The Christian interpretation on capital punishment goes the whole spectrum. Just like many of the other "systems" people choose to believe in. I really shouldn't be arguing it because Everyone believes differently. I just ticks me off that people make the bible look so cut and dry yet Everyone believes different. And will argue, fight and Kill over it.

/rant off

 

Where did I say he did? You sure do like to put words in people's mouths.

 

When supporting your belief in capital punishment, you insinuated that Jesus and God condoned killing. If you take Gods word on that issue, why don't you on all the other old testament issues? And I'm not talking burnt offerings. Although we could because why do some Christians burn inscence during services?? ALl I'm saying is if you're gonna be a Christian, I would try to be Christ-like...

 

Really? It is my opinion and to me I believe the bible does support Capital Punishment as long as it is not carried out by individuals but by the government.

 

So why doesn't everyone else believe the same? WWJD?

[soul .gc]

And the problem with that comment?

 

The problem is that your comment was way off base.

 

When supporting your belief in capital punishment, you insinuated that Jesus and God condoned killing. If you take Gods word on that issue, why don't you on all the other old testament issues? And I'm not talking burnt offerings. Although we could because why do some Christians burn inscence during services?? ALl I'm saying is if you're gonna be a Christian, I would try to be Christ-like...

 

Once again, reading my posts before commenting would help. Where did I say that my view of Capital Punishment came from the OT? I did not. I said it twice that it came from the NT. As to the old testament rituals we are back to my first comment in the last post.

 

As far as being a christian, that is the goal, to try to live your life more like Christ.

 

So why doesn't everyone else believe the same? WWJD?

 

Because they are all wrong? haha. Why do United Brethren make new members wash people's feet when it is not part of our culture anymore? Why do some denominations do things differently than others? Because it is open to interpretation. We covered this in another thread though. Some like to stress certain parts of the bible and others differ but the 5 basic principles are the same among all christians.

[Watchtower]

Whatever Soul. You're right.. Like always. You know exactly what to believe and why. Good for you!

 

Because they are all wrong? haha.

 

For some reason I don't think you're joking..

[soul .gc]

LOL - You are the one putting words into my mouth. I never once said you had to believe what I did about christianity but you still felt the need to attack my views on it and drag me into this thread above when I had nothing to do with it.

[Watchtower]

It astound me that ones of the same belief can have such contradictory views. I'm also astounded that none of your faith has spoken up..

[soul .gc]

It astound me that ones of the same belief can have such contradictory views. I'm also astounded that none of your faith has spoken up..

 

It astounds you? You are the one that keeps harping on the differing views among christianity.

 

What does it matter if someone else speaks up in here? It is my personal belief based off of scripture. This is not something new and "cutting edge", this view has been around for awhile.

[Watchtower]

What does it matter if someone else speaks up in here? It is my personal belief based off of scripture. This is not something new and "cutting edge", this view has been around for awhile.

 

Just like the other myriad of beliefs that are now know to be false and regarded as immoral by most actually. Like Slavery, opression of women, sacrifices.. I just wonder, like Playaa, why some beliefs are told to be forgotten while some are kept... I still ahven't seen anyone answer his question in that other thread.. I tend to blame it on hypocrisy and double standards.. Age old debate. Why do I bother!?