Human nature in Christian tradition..

[dwEEziL]

Stop

[soul .gc]

Why do I bother!?

 

No clue, I am pretty sure you are changing no minds here....

 

Are you saying that capital punishment is forgotten? I am not sure what hypocrisy you are referring to or what double-standard, but it does not matter much.

[jane]

stop

[Watchtower]

Jane, how do you feel about the taking of another persons life. In the same sentence, talk about forgiveness and what Jesus tells you to do..

[Watchtower]

y'know...I just thought of something...this never hit me before.

Christians live by the New Covenant and we say tha tthe Old Covenant doesn't hold anymore...yet the 10 commandments were under the Old Covenant..........

the thing is...that if you live by the new covenant which commands to love your neighbor as yourself and love the lord your God with all your heart....if you live by that...then you'll be following the 10 commandments...

 

*edit*

I really am trying to open a discussion here...the 10 commandments were part of the Old Covenant...so why do Christians still "enforce" them?

Or you could just answer Playaa's question..

[Playaa]

Watch, you probably shouldn't be quoting me because 90% of the time I agree with soul...I just put it a bit less harshly

Edited April 6, 2004 by Playaa/Pselus

[Playaa]

revoked...post away

[Trouble .gc]

can anyone explain to me simply why the christian tradition does not follow the old testament? i know that some of the writings are outlandish, but is talks about God and importaint things that happen in earlier traditions that have lead us to today, so i guess that is why i am confused.

[Playaa]

(I'm sure I'm not gonna get the explanation 100% but here goes)

it's because under the Old Testament, the way to get to God was by the law...follow God's law and if you screw up, sacrifice a lamb not so much cause God likes blood but he wants to know that you are willing to put him before other things in your life (like making money).

When his son died on the cross, he was the final sacrifice and we no longer need to make those sorts of sacrifices...all we need to do is follow the son.

now where people get confused is that they think that they can "follow the son" by just going to church or just saying he existed...that's not following at all...following is sometthing that is done 100% of the time your whole life...

good?

[Watchtower]

All I'm saying is this is real life, and the topic is one of a College course.

And I can't understand how a Christian can comdemn a man to death and think that is the right thing to do when we are supposed to be forgiving. If anything, let the victim or their family decide. I've seen on many occasion ones of a very religous background, forgive and actually befriend the perpetrator. That to me is the only way. Then to have our gov't acting as God.

You guys are gonna hate me for this, but I really have no problem with Capital punishment. As long as we be certain beyond a shadow of a dout of the guilt. I am almost of the incling of making this painful and public. Lets talk deterrent

[jane]

Capital Punishment. Ugh. I personally dont think its the right way to go. I dont find convincing scripture to sway me either way, honestly. If soul would post some here(aka actual book references) i would be happy to consider them.

 

In repsonse to your question WT, I dont know. I dont take responisbilty for anyones life, excepting that if I didnt do my best to let them know the truth, I would feel responsible for their soul. I think Jesus tells us to love each other and to forgive and forget...I do think it up to the justice system how to punish people. But in the end, God has final judgement over thier souls, and believe me, itll be far greater judgement(better and worse) than the justice system will ever concieve. God is our judge and we are our own prosecutors. We decide whether we will have charges laid against us or not(if we choose to follow Jesus or not).

 

 

In helping playaa finish his thoughts on the old covenent vs new, I would say too that when we follow Jesus, we will live by the Law of the old testament(though not live the way we used to, aka living to make sacrifices and keeping from unkosher foods) It is not something that is binding anymore, since Christ fulfilled it all for us. But we will naturally be working towards the goals and commandments set down in the old covenent. We will live. We will enjoy life.

 

God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him. To live without want, to live without desire, save serving God is to be satisfied. To know the joy of loving someone far greater and far holier than yourself is far better than anything else(im working myself up to a praise session again ).

 

/wants to know if that asnwered WT's question he possed to jane....

[Trouble .gc]

yes playaa, that was very nice...

 

i am catholic, but i in no means consider myself a good one...i have not followed many of the rules....i'm very liberal in my views but still believe in the importaince of many of the traditions the catholic religion teaches...

 

i question many things now a days- look who i live with, but i still hold true to what i feel in my heart about God...and noone could ever change that...i pray almost every night, and i ask God for guidance in tough situations...and i know that this is not much. but i also think that Jesus is all forgiving and will except me back to him when i am ready...

 

and about the OT, i really don't know...i understand what you are saying and it makes sense...

 

i am really looking forward to getting more indepth in my class at school...hoping that it will help me understand more.

 

To live without want, to live without desire, save serving God is to be satisfied. To know the joy of loving someone far greater and far holier than yourself is far better than anything else

i really like the way you put that Jane

[Playaa]

To live without want, to live without desire, save serving God is to be satisfied. To know the joy of loving someone far greater and far holier than yourself is far better than anything else

the times that I have truly been happy and satisfied in this life...have all come when I was concentrating on God...when I was actively seeking his will and following Christs teachinngs...I just wish I had the willpower to do it every second of every day.

 

and Knock...I'm not trying to be mean or say anything bad against you here...but:

but i also think that Jesus is all forgiving and will except me back to him when i am ready...

what makes you think that he is gonna be there at your time? too many people put God aside until they're ready...do you really think that's something God likes? To be on the bottom of the list? to even not be on the top of the list? (which puts us all in this situation then)

he did say he's a jealous God...

[Trouble .gc]

well then so be it...

 

but i really doubt it...God is suppose to be all forgiving...

[soul .gc]

And I can't understand how a Christian can comdemn a man to death and think that is the right thing to do when we are supposed to be forgiving.

 

If the person asks for forgiveness they may receive it but that still does not alleviate the punishments for the crimes. Look at when Jesus was crucified, he had next to him 2 thieves. The one was mad that Jesus would not save them but the other told him to be quiet because they were getting their just punishment for their actions. At no time did Jesus say that they should not die for their actions.....he also did not say they should die for their actions but he told the one, after he asked to be remembered, that he would be with him today in paradise.

 

If anything, let the victim or their family decide.

 

This is not the way according to how I interpret the bible. It is my opinion that the decision should be left up to the government to decide.

 

Capital Punishment. Ugh. I personally dont think its the right way to go. I dont find convincing scripture to sway me either way, honestly. If soul would post some here(aka actual book references) i would be happy to consider them.

 

It is a section of 1Peter. I will post it up later.

[soul .gc]

what makes you think that he is gonna be there at your time? too many people put God aside until they're ready...do you really think that's something God likes? To be on the bottom of the list? to even not be on the top of the list? (which puts us all in this situation then)

 

I gotta disagree a little here Playaa. He will always be there, up until the end of Jesus' 1000 year reign. I think he has a plan for everyone and if you truly come back to him and commit your life to Christ and God then he will accept you. One thing I always try to remember; God loves everyone in his own way, even the horrible drivers that annoy the hell out of me....

 

As to the OT/NT ways of life I think you hit it pretty close from my understanding except I believe it was when Jesus was born, not when he died. Upon his birth the breaking of the old ways was done. Jesus gives us new rules and ways to live by and they are expressed in the very first pages of the NT.

[jane]

well then so be it...

 

but i really doubt it...God is suppose to be all forgiving...

well i would just say a few things here trouble. You are right. He is forgiving. But I would find it to be a mistake if all we focused on was one aspect of God. If all i focused on was God's love I would miss His wrath, his mercy, his wisdom, his compassion, his holiness, his kingdom, his forgiveness, so on and so forth. If we try to focus on just one aspect of God, we will miss out on the whole thing He has given us.

 

 

this post will be edited for clarification laster, but i have to go to work now.

[Playaa]

I wasn't quite saying that God won't be there...

I guess I'm saying 2 things:

(by "you" in these I'm being general)

1) how do you know YOU'LL be there when you're ready? what if you die tomorrow?

2) do you think God is going to be happy that you pushed him aside until it was ok for you?

I think he will always be there as well and WILL forgive us...but that doesn't mean we should use his forgiveness as a crutch (Watch has even mentioned it in the past) and a failsafe.

If you only pay attention to God when you have time...then are you really paying attention to him at all?

think about obedience. Are you really being obedient to your parents if you only do the things they tell you that you want to do? You may be "obeying" them at that time...but are you really being obedient? (what a dumb sounding word)

[Trouble .gc]

how do you know YOU'LL be there when you're ready? what if you die tomorrow

chance i am willing to take...i've gone through the sacraments up to confirmation...so, i'd like to think that i am in God's good grace.

 

do you think God is going to be happy that you pushed him aside until it was ok for you

I think He'll be happy I came back.

 

God knows that i am busy and have alot going on right now...

[Playaa]

i've gone through the sacraments up to confirmation

mind 'splainin that to the non-catholic?

[Trouble .gc]

the 7 sacraments...

Baptism, Holy Eucharist (1st communion), Penance, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony and Annointing of the Sick.

 

 

the sacraments are broken into 3 sections:

 

The Sacraments of Initiation: Baptism, Confirmation, Euchrist

 

The Sacraments of Healing: Penance, Annointing of the Sick

 

The Sacraments of Service: Holy Orders, Matrimony.

 

Holy orders is ordaination of a priest, and women cannot be priests in the catholic religion....

[jane]

read matthew 25:1-13. This thought of yours is about the scariest thing i can imagine, and find myself wondering whenever i let myself go down a path that takes me away from my focus on God. I dont know what God would say to those who comes back late. I know if you come back too late, then you dont get forgiven, since He "never knew you". God is all forgiving, if you ask it. He wont forgive if you dont ask for it.

 

 

jane

[Playaa]

k, again not trying to flame just trying to learn.

how does going through the sacraments put you in good with God?

[Trouble .gc]

i said "i'd like to think." Not saying i am...i've spent about 21 years of my life dedicated to God.

 

...I don't understand what you guys are exactly trying to get at here...

[Trouble .gc]

try this page out. it explains the 7 sacraments.