Why no profanity?

[Clueless]

Illuminaughty, we get it, you like turkey, but have a little respect for a meaningful conversation huh?

 

If you have nothing to add, just eat your turkey and read.

[CowboyFromHell`X]

I just ate and now I want turkey, thanks alot.

[Fatty]

Must I qoute turkey to reveal its lumiscent qualities?  Surely not...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you would only just talk instead of trying to be so clever. Big theories and big words (that you missed spelling correctly by a good length) just don't cut it.

 

Answer the questions, speak plainly, and stop with the show.

[Xterminator]

why no cussing?

 

majority of us here are adults, there's no need for it. We want a comfortable atmosphere that promotes the game, brings our community together and gets rid of the negatives. There's no need for cussing.

[duma]

This has been too one sided. I really don't care what you do with your server. I actually prefer it over most others. However, I am also an arguementative person, and there are always too sides to every story... so... out of boredom and spite...

 

This is my most favorite argument on the servers. It's also the most asinine. Even your basis for comparison is so far from actual circumstances it's laughable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is it? Surely you can see that there is a connection between playing a game that is violent, and then requesting that everyone play nice by not cussing. If you do not, why do you suppose it keeps coming up? You say it is your favorite arguement, so I presume it has been made in the past. I guess many ppl see the irony.

 

See if you haven't taught your child the difference from entertainment and reality by the time they can comprehend the concept of life and death, then you have failed miserably as a parent.

Really? Have you read any studies about kids and watching violance? There are tons of studies out there that tell you it has a terrible affect on their young minds. You might want to read a few. Honestly, the least of your worries should be having them hear someone say a profanity.

 

Let me tell you a secret. Counter-strike is a game.... you aren't really killing people... I know... Wow. But regardless of it's environment or context, a vulger word is a vulger word there is no "virtual swear".

It is a mature game. The box even states "17+" I don't think a kid should listen to swear words, but I am certain a 17 yo kid has heard a few. Besides, I don't think a swear word will affet you kid nearly as much as watching violance (as I have already stated).

 

Your trying to draw a correlation from two completely different activities.  There are two different types of interaction that takes place in CS:S.  One is the game itself and the other is the chat.

The game relies on chat for communication. You are suggesting that the game is otherwise silent. Language is the jelly, the game is the peanut butter.

 

 

Shooting at each other is what its about and there's nothing personal about that. The chat however can be very personal.  The context of that intereaction is solely to communicate with others.

There is an expectation when you enter an online game, with other humans, that there will be communication. In fact, there is a warning on most games about playing online. When you fire that game up, you are consenting to the activity, and the communication. This game has a muturity level for two reasons, the violence, and the potential for online discussion. You wish to seperate the two, but they are very much intertwined.

 

More often than not the wordplay is vulgar and not very intelligent nor constuctive. 

Cussing is vulgar. It isn't meant to be constructive, nor intelligent. Redundant?

 

That is why it can be refreshing for some to have a place to play where the amount of vulgar and typically juvenille behavior is kept to a minimum.

Ah yes.. so you can play a game made for juvenilles, blow someone's head off, watch the blood splatter on the wall, and never have to read someone type out: bs.

 

I think the best answer is simple. There is no profanity on the GC server because the ppl that pay for it, make the rules.

 

 

Well, anyway... I actually prefer this server because I don't have to hear someone scream profanity into their mic. Now, you might suggest that this is a bit of hypocrisy. But I will suggest it is not, for three reasons. 1. I don't have to read what someone types. I seperate the two forms of in-game communication regarding this post. 2. There is irony in this philosophy, even if you choose not to see it. 3. The terms I left at the beginning of this post.

[Fatty]

Hey you didn't quote me, I want to argue!

[Fatty]

I just noticed that this guy erased his first post. Nice.

 

I always wondered why some boards didn't let people edit their own posts....

 

Maybe we DO put too much talk into it...like Duma said...our rules.

 

From our standards:

 

-you can enjoy gaming without cussing, putting people down, or riding on your own ego. In fact, the games are much more fun without these things.

 

Here's the rest.

[strangefamous]

I can understand how someone like yourself finds it easy to believe what the "media" tells you about violence, since your so prone to preach these so called "studies", which I'm sure you've heard about on fox news. The so-called "experts" should put away their pens and spend more time with their children or grandchildren, or better yet, adopt a child who has no home or family. Because there's only one sure way to prevent youth violence, and that is by taking care of youth. We do not take care of youth when we deny them entertainment which allows them to safely challenge the powerlessness they feel at not yet controlling their own lives and then to find symbolic resolution. Entertainment media are therapeutic, not toxic. That's what the evidence shows. Cyber bullets don't kill. Passing the blame to violent media is a scapegoat, for lazy parents and crooked politicians trying to win your vote by blaiming your son/daughters outburt on tv or video games so that you can feel better about your inadiquicies neglectful parent. Our culture is thirsty for a quick fix and simple black and white answers. . .

[Fatty]

This topic is going to have to be moved soon.

 

I have to agree. We can psycho analyze all we want, but here's my theory. Take America's problems and consider each one. How many of them are created by or complicated by the breakdown of the family?

 

Duma, I think SF was doing was refuting someone's arguments that in the end were to justify cuss words in the server.

 

Football is violent. Yet you can play it clean or you can be an idiot while you're playing it. Hockey falls in the same line, no? How about boxing? Heck, these things are even real things, where people are out to physically conquer someone else. In the end, you could VERY easily argue that these 3 examples are violent. My point? Violence does not necessarily have to submit to a trashy mouth. Trashtalk is not owned by violoence, nor is it driven by it, nor do violence and cussing by nature have to walk hand in hand on a moonlit night in the park (you like that?). They find each other by choice, and our server rules (again yes the root of it all) says that violence and cussing both exist in the online gaming world. We'll take the violence as an inherent part of this game, but we'll leave the cussing. Cussing, you stay home! Bad cussing!

[ConGregation]

I always said that the no swearing wasn't for the kiddies, it was for ME. I don't want to hear it. I dont want to read it. And since the server is run by like minded individuals, it isn't allowed. End of story.

 

And besides, your hypocrisy card is not endorsed by the NAACP so scram!

[duma]

I can understand how someone like yourself finds it easy to believe what the "media" tells you about violence, since your so prone to preach these so called "studies", which I'm sure you've heard about on fox news.

 

Ha ha... now that IS funny. I don't watch Fox news. As a matter of fact, I stay away from one sided discussions. Which is why I posted the other side here. There always two perspectives, and to know something, you have to see both sides. And there are studies. I never said how much faith I place in them. However, I do believe that the actions children see have an affect on them, in one way or another.

 

I haven't attempted to offend you. Please do not attempt to offend me.

 

The so-called "experts" should put away their pens and spend more time with their children or grandchildren, or better yet, adopt a child who has no home or family.

 

Much like your first suggestion, you are making ad hominem attacks. You have no basis for this presumption.

 

Because there's only one sure way to prevent youth violence, and that is by taking care of youth. We do not take care of youth when we deny them entertainment which allows them to safely challenge the powerlessness they feel at not yet controlling their own lives and then to find symbolic resolution.

 

You are right. Part of taking care of children is knowing what is best for them. Challenge them with sport. They get exercise, develop real life team skills, and they get outside. If you are really trying to accomplish what you have stated here, sport is much better suited then a video game.

 

 

Entertainment media are therapeutic, not toxic. That's what the evidence shows.

 

It does? Where? To what do you owe this knowledge? I wonder, is porn always therapeutic? What if it depicts children? You can see that it is entertaining (for a sick mind), and it is very toxic for that person because it will encourage them to act upon their desire.

 

 

Cyber bullets don't kill. Passing the blame to violent media is a scapegoat, for lazy parents and crooked politicians trying to win your vote by blaiming your son/daughters outburt on tv or video games so that you can feel better about your inadiquicies neglectful parent. Our culture is thirsty for a quick fix and simple black and white answers. . .

 

I never said what the affect was. There are studies by reputable people. Don't assume that you know more then they do. Even if you don't chose to believe something, you should at least hear it out. Fox news....

 

Hey you didn't quote me, I want to argue!

 

You never really talked about the issue. You addressed the original poster, and never added new material. BTW, I am not argueing here. As I have said, I just wanted to balance this discussion. After reading the first posts, I don't think people understand the other side. I understand the point of veiw, but I am not saying I agree with it.

 

Much to Strangefamous' surprise, I am sure, I don't have to believe everything I say in order to raise a point.

 

Maybe we DO put too much talk into it...like Duma said...our rules.

 

And that is all you have to do. Just point someone to your rules. You pay the bill, and other players are free to go. There is no need to justify the rational.

 

Football is violent. <snip> My point? Violence does not necessarily have to submit to a trashy mouth.

 

Oh come on... you don't think that football players cuss? You don't think football players trash talk each other? Maybe not in little league, but the do somewhere around the age of 17+, which is strangley the same age that is listed on the HL2 box.

 

Trashtalk is not owned by violoence, nor is it driven by it, nor do violence and cussing by nature have to walk hand in hand on a moonlit night in the park (you like that?).

 

Unless there are rules against it, they usually do (my opinion of course, I have no relative studies).

 

They find each other by choice, and our server rules (again yes the root of it all) says that violence and cussing both exist in the online gaming world. We'll take the violence as an inherent part of this game, but we'll leave the cussing. Cussing, you stay home! Bad cussing!

 

Agree... agree and agree. Again, rationalizing this isn't necessary. My point remains, that for every reason you create, there will be a side that finds it flawed. I can't argue away your rules.

 

I always said that the no swearing wasn't for the kiddies, it was for ME. I don't want to hear it. I dont want to read it. And since the server is run by like minded individuals, it isn't allowed. End of story.

 

And that is all that needs to be said.

 

And besides, your hypocrisy card is not endorsed by the NAACP so scram!

 

I don't think that National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, would care one bit about what duma said regarding the GC server.

 

The scram part wasn't needed either. I am not finding fault with the server. Please re-read my first post. I do wonder though, are you asking me to leave because your perspective has been challenged, or because you think I want to cuss on your server. The former is very sad, the latter simply isn't true.

Edited February 6, 2005 by Mad Bean

[duma]

Hmm... the quote tags are broken. If anyone can find the error, I will fix it. The post is hard to read as is. Also, if a mod finds it, please feel free to fix it.

[ConGregation]

Once again my humor falls flat on its nose...

[duma]

Once again my humor falls flat on its nose...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was very dry, so I wasn't sure. Perhaps a bigger smiley would work better next time.

[Fatty]

Duma, are you here soley to debate? We have a forum for that ya, know. There's a place at the bottom of the forums where people aruge just to argue.

[duma]

Hmm... the quote tags are broken. If anyone can find the error, I will fix it. The post is hard to read as is. Also, if a mod finds it, please feel free to fix it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I keep trying... I can't figure it out. It bothers me though....

[duma]

Duma, are you here soley to debate?  We have a forum for that ya, know.  There's  a place at the bottom of the forums where people aruge just to argue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I get enough debate in class. I am not here to do that. There was just a very one sided discussion. It was becoming obvious that not everyone understand why people see this as an irony. It was an attempt to explain why the other side exists, and the fallacy of the arguments presented.

[Fatty]

Anyways, you said it yourself, duma....you're aruging just to argue.

 

Great job with words <golf clap>

 

Much to Strangefamous' surprise, I am sure, I don't have to believe everything I say in order to raise a point.

 

Again...<clap clap>

 

So, in a word, you're playing public defendent.

 

Strange, don't feed this, please. I'm tempted to close it due to it's rediculous nature...a guy who on one hand says he supports, wants to join, etc...but then for some reason decides to play debate for no reason at all other than to argue. Useless.

 

Don't say you're not here to debate...that's EXACTLY what you're doing. I mean...EXACTLY.

[Fatty]

Oh come on... you don't think that football players cuss? You don't think football players trash talk each other?

 

Did I say that? Anything near that? If you're going to quote until our eyes bleed, at least read what people say first. You even quoted what I said, and in there you can't find the words: I don't think football players cuss. I don't think football players trash talk each other. Didn't say it, didn't infer it, why would you ask me if I think it?

 

As you quoted:

 

Football is violent. <snip> My point? Violence does not necessarily have to submit to a trashy mouth.

 

At some point in there you decided that I was naive and posed a silly set of questions to me instead of understanding what I was saying. Maybe I was different. Me? I'd carry the ball, run you over instead of going out of bounds, and then help you back off the ground with a smile. My nickname was "The Hammer" not "The Jerk." It was, and still is, a choice.

 

All the smoke....but no debate of course.

[duma]

Gosh fatty. I had no idea. First from the PM, and now to this. You really have a problem when someone challanges your point of view.

 

I will address your last point, only because it seems to be a thorn of your discontent.

 

Your anaology to sports of violance and not needing to cuss is understood. The fault lies in the fact that they do cuss. You can't argue from an anology where something does happen to something in which you are trying to show doesn't need happen.

 

Finally, you may have the last word. Your suggestion of closing this topic is understood. You prefer for there not to be any discussion, or debate if you would rather call it that, about your policy. That is fine. But again, that is all you needed to say.

 

My apologies for affending you. In the future, I should allow the flogging of one, and the one sided discussion to continue.

[Fatty]

Noble.

 

You've made it out to be a fault in my logic that football players cuss? Where did I say they don't cuss? So where is the fault?

 

You never challenged my point of view, you picked away at stranges, well, just because.

 

My point is, what's the point? Where's the constructive aspects of your debate that you dn't call a debate? You could go into every topic in this entire forum and say "I don't believe what I'm saying, I'm just gonna take the unpopular side just because nobody else is." Wouldn't this be a great place then?

 

This isn't a challenge, it's just a mockery of some people that are trying to make a difference...doing something that's not normal in today's skewed standards. It's a mockery, duma.

[Fatty]

One more, to address your refute of my "flawed argument."

 

You can't argue from an anology where something does happen to something in which you are trying to show doesn't need happen.

 

This is EXACTLY what makes us stand out here at GC. This is why you have said yourself that you like it here.

 

Switch the analogy back to gaming.

 

Online gaming = obscene language and behavior

 

Online gaming doesn't HAVE to = obscene language and behavior.

 

Sample 1: just about every server out there, you've been to them

 

Sample 2: our servers

 

 

I am arguing from within a situation that proves it's not necessary. I am arguing from GC saying that it doesn't have to be the way that the rest of them are.

 

So your statement above is actually flawed. I'm arguing from an example of the right way, stating it doesn't have to be the popular way. From within my huddle, my team, our coalition, this community....we can stand and say it doesn't have to be how it is. I'll say it again, because it sorta doesn't make sense at first read. It doesn't have to be how it is.

[Bubblegum Bandit]

In the future, I should allow the flogging of one, and the one sided discussion to continue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I personally don't feel he was being flogged, just told why we believe what we do and that's why we run the server the way we want.

 

As far as a one sided discussion, what would you expect would happen. As stated by our rules on this very website and on our gaming server, we don't allow cussing in the server. He came here as a direct result of that rule. So, to come into our forums and expect this arguement to me more than one sided is kinda silly I think. The only way it wouldn't be one sided is if he piled in (what is our forum up to 800 members) 800 of his buddies and we all had a good old fashion debate.

 

As far as playing devils advocate.....I just think its unnecessary in this situation. I think we understand why some people think there is irony in our rules.

[Fatty]

Wait! I'm back with a new analogy (I won't explain it I'll just share it!)....I wonder if the line of similarity between us and this will be obvious:

 

We're the Big Mac, Large Fry, with the Diet Coke!

[duma]

Fatty

Well, I was permitting your last word, but I don't like your jump on the pile technique. You have a tendency to strong arm a discussion.

 

You try to keep my mouth silent by making fun, name calling, and attempting to keep other people from replying to what I have said to them. You send PM's basically asking me to stop, and then egg me on over here.

 

Which is fine, I just can't believe that I nearly bought into it. I can see how your strategy works. You appear large over here, and equal on the other side.

 

I don't like to dance behind the scene. You send me a pm to attack both fronts, or to cuddle on one side, and then smack the other. Both valuable techniques for your objective, but rather strategic failures for dealing with someone that can see through your smoke. I will not dance with you both behind the curtain and before the crowd.

 

Regarding your pm:

I don't call it a debate because this isn't formal. No one here offers more then there own perspective, myself included. This is a discussion of opinion. You ask why I called it a discussion, and that is why. I guess it is a matter of semantics.

 

I have not made a false assumption with the quote of the football analogy. I have explained your fallacy. Though you don't state it, you should be aware that all terms in an analogy doesn't need to be. You are comparing violence and cussing. Omitting the terms cussing from football doesn't mean it shouldn't be inferred, matter of fact, it needs to be in order for you analogy to work.

 

The quote tags are messed up. I have no idea why, but I do know that isn't because I was rushing through things.

 

To your posts:

I never challenged your point of view in my first post because you never made one (as I stated in the second post). What I have challenged is your policy. Which I can only imagine was partially completed by your moving hand. Wouldn't that be part of your POV? I didn't see why you were so fired up until my previous post, and you repeated attempts to solicit my silence.

 

The people here are strangers. However, I didn't engage with anyone in a rude manner. Simply offering a different point. Which might not make a flowery home, but at least people would see more then just what they want to.

 

There is a flaw in your analogy. I understand your point, but you fail in creating a strong similarity. A better example would have been to point to an adult team that doesn't cuss.

 

Noble? I am not sure why you make this statement.

 

Edit: Regarding the mockery.. you seem to find this offensive. I didn't intend to make fun of GC, or your policy. Had you sent me a pm stating what you said in the end, we wouldn't be at this point now. I don't wish to make fun of GC, or what you have done here. But, I will not allow you to strong arm my silence either.

 

 

Bubble Gum:

Point(s) well taken.

Edited February 5, 2005 by duma