Playaa February 21, 2003 Share Playaa Member February 21, 2003 true....but they are different enough to not be considered the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brahma_Bull February 21, 2003 Share Brahma_Bull Member February 21, 2003 hey! who else is Hindu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa February 21, 2003 Share Playaa Member February 21, 2003 I think that was Orbital (but he no longer posts on here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone March 6, 2003 Share Hambone Member March 6, 2003 Is Existentialism a religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Hurricane March 6, 2003 Share Guest The Hurricane Guests March 6, 2003 I believe in nice cars and hot girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest [DOH]TaPe March 6, 2003 Share Guest [DOH]TaPe Guests March 6, 2003 Is Existentialism a religion? Bare minimum it's belief system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa March 6, 2003 Share Playaa Member March 6, 2003 which is why I said Religion/Worldview according to some (official) definitions these days they are one and the same. Religion no longer means that you worship a god but it is just an all-encompassing word for your views on life. (sucks for religion haters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.St3d4nk0 March 6, 2003 Share Sgt.St3d4nk0 Member March 6, 2003 Catholics are Christians TY Went to Catholic school for 11 years.Was tought by nuns i was a christian.Im wondering why you try to separate christians and catholics. Definition of Christian= n. a person who believes in jesus as the messiah and in the religion based on the teachings of jesus. adj 1 of jesus or his teachings 2 belonging to the religion based on these teachings 3 having the qualities that christians are supposed to have,as kindness,charity,and humbleness ohh yea Christianity= n1 the christian religion 2 all the christian people lets see Catholic =having to do with the christian church whose head is the pope:roman catholic. a member of the roman catholic church straight from the dictionary(websters new world) =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Slayer March 7, 2003 Share Shadow Slayer Member March 7, 2003 Sgt.St3d4nk0,Mar 6 2003, 06:23 PM]Catholic =having to do with the christian church whose head is the pope: hey this isnt meant to be a slam against you or anything man but didnt the Bible say that the head of the church is christ. but that definition up there says that the head of the catholic church is the pope? im just wondering.... i really dont mean this as a slam against catholics or anything so pleaaaaaaase dont take it that way.i would just like an explanation if you feel that you want to. or you could jsut totaly ignnore this post.,.. i dont care:) peace out S.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa March 7, 2003 Share Playaa Member March 7, 2003 Sted I'm not saying Catholics can't be Christian, I'm saying that the religions are different things. Like you said to be a Christian is to believe Jesus was the messiah and follow his teachings. One of Jesus' teachings was that the one and only way to get to heaven is by faith in him as God's son. The Catholic religion believes in salvation by faith and that we must atone for our sins. Whereas Christ said this was impossible. Therefore the Catholic religion disagrees with something Christ said, meaning they aren't following him, meaning the religion as a whole is a different religion. Just because someone says they're Christian (or tells you that you are) doesn't make it true. That's the whole idea behind absolutes. I'm a Christian because I believe the Jesus Christ is the one and only way to get to Heaven. If I say I'm a Christian but dont' believe that and don't follow that then I'm just lying to myself. Also what S.S. said. While the Pope is a great man and from all I know a very holy man, he is just a man. The catholic religion holds him as higher than that, a step below Christ. No man can be that. That's another thing that makes the Catholic religion NOT the same as Christianity. anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.St3d4nk0 March 7, 2003 Share Sgt.St3d4nk0 Member March 7, 2003 The Catholic religion believes in salvation by faith and that we must atone for our sins.  Whereas Christ said this was impossible.  Therefore the Catholic religion disagrees with something Christ said, meaning they aren't following him, meaning the religion as a whole is a different religion Hmm im Catholic and your a Christian but you know so much about catholicism.Yes ill agree they are different branches of christianity.But both fall under the catagory of Christianity And i dont like the idea of you thinking my religion doesnt follow Christ.You need to be more carefull on what you post on here.Because you are insulting alot of catholics here. Including me Also please post the scripture supporting your accusations that catholics disagree with something Christ said.And do not follow him as you say...... I think you need to start viewing your fellow catholic as a christian like he is instead of trying to say they are wrong in their beliefs.Your wrong for doing that............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa March 7, 2003 Share Playaa Member March 7, 2003 Sted I wasn't trying to insult you. Tell me, how do you believe someone gets to heaven? According to what I know (which could be dated information) from my mother who was raised catholic, the Catholic church officially says that you get to heaven by believing in Christ as the son of God AND by living a good life which you will atone for all of your sins for in purgatory and such. Why is it that Catholics feel the need to go to a priest to have the priest talk to God for them? Why must they say Hail Mary's? To me these things are working for salvation, which is a wrong view of what the Bible says. by the way the verse was John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. and also Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord also John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. so I guess what I should have said is that while Catholocism believes in Jesus Christ as the son of God the church itself believes there is MORE to salvation when there isn't. by the way, I dont' truely consider my faith a "religion"...I just am what I am. I believe in Jesus Christ and know that he came to this earth to save me from an eternity in Hell. That's who I am and what I live. So if you want the title Christian you can have it. Me I'll just stick with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa March 7, 2003 Share Playaa Member March 7, 2003 as further explanation you hafta understand that I live in an area of the country that is HUGELY catholic. If you asked 80% of the ppl around here they'd say they believe in God and go to a Catholic church. Yet I see NOTHING from any of them that says Christ is in there life. This area is filled with rich scum who believe the entire purpose of life is to get drunk on the weekends and get more money during the week. And these are the same ppl that say they are "Christians". That doesn't float in my book. If you truely believe something then you live by it. You act like you truely believe it. I don't know you sted so I have no clue how you act. I'm sorry if I've wrongly judged you, it was stupid of me. I will attempt to get past my pre-set views of Catholics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.St3d4nk0 March 7, 2003 Share Sgt.St3d4nk0 Member March 7, 2003 I grown up around catholics all my life and i must say they are some of the best people i have ever met.Catholic schools are top in the country as far as academics and scholarships.My teachers were all pretty good and made you learn.Didnt have a choice like when i went to public school my last year. In religion class we learned about all religions and there teachings. Which was very unbiased....in my opinion.They also taught respect of other religions.Growing up i never thought different about a protestant or a christian or even a jew......i believed we all worshiped the same god.That you was a baptist or protestant was just another branch of christianity to me.But since ive talked to other people ive noticed how some baptist's(christians) and protestants dont like catholics or say our beliefs are wrong...etc.And i really wonder if they get taught that from their religious teachings. My hats off to the Catholics again for being unbiased in the teaching of other religions. Maybe you just were taught different than what i was taught. but its all good,people have different opinions.I believe personally that a buddist in china can goto heaven.or a hindu or Islam etc...i have opened my mind about religions and are more interested in their teachings...etc..their history. going back to the original disagreement.Catholics do qualify as Christians. TY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MuffinClan March 9, 2003 Share Guest MuffinClan Guests March 9, 2003 I am Roman Catholic. I have to agree with steps post. Catholics are very nice and there education is top notch. I started preschool off at St.Johns. Then went to St.Josephs till 6th grade. Then to St.Mary's for 7th grade. The I went to regular public school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty March 9, 2003 Share Fatty GC Founder March 9, 2003 Catholics are very nice and there education is top notch. Define irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Slayer March 10, 2003 Share Shadow Slayer Member March 10, 2003 well i have to agree with the post up there ^^ i cant remember who said it but they said that a budist can go to heaven and a couple of other religions. this may seem kinda weird but religion dosnt matter... what i mean is the way a person goes to heaven accoriding to the bible is to "belive on the name of the Lord and thou shalt be saved. " so in essence yes people from another religion can get saved and go to heaven. but there is less of a chance of that since they for the most part are getting taught a distorted view of the Bible. a lot of religions try to bring mans works into the equation. they think Jesus+my good works=heaven. but the Bible is very very plain about that it says. "there is none righteous no not one" in another verse it says "our righteousness are as filthy rags." as soon as we were old enough to realize what we were doing we started sinning. there is nothing a sinful man (any man) can do to pay for his sins. so Christ did it for us on the cross and all we have to do is say "yes Lord i accept your free gift of salvation" the Bible refers to it as a gift many times. so i dont see how people think they can earn it. if you have to earn it then its not a gift. if i had a gift all rapped up and decided to give it to one of you and i held it out and said " here is a gift for you will you take it?" you wouldnt have to do anything to earn it you would just either say yes ill take it or no i wont take it. and thats what i comes down to. Christ died on the cross to pay for our sins and he holds out his nail scarred hand and offers eternal life to anyone who wants it he is saying " i already paid your deabt all you have to do is accept it" i took him up on it and my life has never been the same since . i didnt have to do anything accept trust him and believe him to get saved and i dont have to do anything to stay saved. the Bible says. " we are in Jesus hand and Jesus's hand is in the Fathers hand." sounds pretty secure to me. im sorry that isnt a direct quote cause i dont have my Bible right in front of me. to say that i have to do something to get saved or do something to stay saved is to say that God isnt powerful enough to save me or keep me saved. it would be making what Christ did on the cross out to be nothing to say that something i did could do something that he couldnt. thats a scarry thing when you start thinking that you can do somthing Christ cant. ok i think that is all for me. i will try to get back on tommorrow after work and edit this and out in the verse numbers for all my quotes. S.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConGregation March 10, 2003 Share ConGregation Member March 10, 2003 I agree with you totally S.S. That is the truth in a nutshell. Even with all the spelling errors (just picking on you ). It all comes down to this. The fact that you are really a christian is not based on your religion title. Just because your a Catholic doesnt make you a christian just like calling myself a Baptist doesnt make me a christian. The only one who can make you a christian is Christ (by the method described above). I have known Catholics that were christians as well as Baptists. It is only if you have accepted Christ's gift. But I do see some discrepancies between what the Bible teaches and what the Catholic church teaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mossad March 10, 2003 Share Guest Mossad Guests March 10, 2003 i'm jewish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief March 10, 2003 Share Chief Member March 10, 2003 The problem with saying your Christian, Playa, is that you meant Protestant. And probably a particular brand/flavor/denomination. Orthodox Catholics, Catholics, and the plentitude of Protestants are all Christian as they believe in Chirst as the son of God et cetera. Muslims and Jews believe in Christ in as much as they acknowledge his existence but tend to think of him as another prophet or spreader of the Word. Jews are much older and preserve the value of the original tennents on which J.C.'s lessons stemmed. Old Testament Vs. New Testament. Muslims are much newer and acknowledge both of these views but add their own through the prophet Mohammed. Mormons are a breed apart as they accept the return of Christ to the New Word through angels speaking to a man from Vermont by the name of Joseph Smith in visions. Existentialism is a philosophy regarding the search for meaning. Life without meaning=existential atheist or life without meaning we cannot understand=existential theist. That fits into a worldview. Both side of my family are Catholic, I was raised without going to church much, but as a Protestant when I did. I've got a major in Philosophy and tend to see much wisdom in many religions and philosophies. The more I learn about them the more I see universal truths and consistencies. I shy away from judging any of them too much based off of the texts and much annoyed by the biased interpretations and insanity that can come from radical interpretations of any of them. I am in between. A student of the Eastern and Western traditions. I know that God exists and that there is meaning and see it in my every day life. I shy from using words to describe much of it, for in the words is the difficulty of meaning and semantics and the things that separate us from our fellow man. We will all know some truth when we die, and we can share it then. Until then, we will only find more distance between us attempting to talk about any of it. Chief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConGregation March 10, 2003 Share ConGregation Member March 10, 2003 The problem with saying your Christian, Playa, is that you meant Protestant. And probably a particular brand/flavor/denomination. Orthodox Catholics, Catholics, and the plentitude of Protestants are all Christian as they believe in Chirst as the son of God et cetera. I guess Playaa was approaching it from a "real" perspective than a "label" perspective. The world (as well as Catholics) label themselves as christian. But you have to consider that being a christian is a spiritual experience and not every Catholic/Baptist/Methodist/Pentacostal is a christian. And the very fact that the Catholic's teach a different "Gospel" than what the Bible teaches is where the disagreement comes from. Again, I have nothing against a Catholic and have had sweet fellowship with some really great believing Catholics. But they had to eschew some of the core doctrines taught in their church's. My problem is with the Catholic theologians and clergy. They take men's teachings and elevate it to a standing on par with, or even greater than the Bible. So since I am a Bible believer, that is (IMO) false teaching and leads many to try to become a christian the wrong way. And that is a very serious error. But if your just looking for easy labels to categorize religions... you can call the Catholic religion "Christian". But I am of the persuasion that the title "Christian" should be reserved for individuals that have trusted in Christ for forgiveness of sins and not relied on the "works of their hands". So I am a Baptist by religion... but a Christian by the work Christ did in my heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief March 10, 2003 Share Chief Member March 10, 2003 Point taken, and that's exactly what I meant when I said: I shy from using words to describe much of it, for in the words is the difficulty of meaning and semantics and the things that separate us from our fellow man. We will all know some truth when we die, and we can share it then. Until then, we will only find more distance between us attempting to talk about any of it.They are all beliefs and interpretations. Most of them personal. that being a christian is a spiritual experience I would say life is a spiritual experience. The ways of the Holy See are exactly why Protestants began branching off. The teachings of Chirst explicitly warn of the errors of having a Church and the writs of man interfering with the word of God. Now you've got Lutherans, Baptists, Southern Baptists, Methodists, Pentacostals, Unitarians, and the list goes on as emphasis is shifted from one thing to another. Then some protestants wanted divorce and you end up with the Church of England. Some tell you what to wear, some tell you what to eat. They all offer guidance and hope if you are open to them. Most of "your" "Christians" would deny the Church of Latter Day Saints principal differences. Western Christianity (those who accept Christ as the Son of God) mostly denies Islam its prophet. And hold it against Jews for not acknowledging Christ as the Son of God. Just about nobody knows the nature of Judaism. Anti-semitic? Hebrews. Semites are decendants of Shem. Hebrews are decendants of Heber. Heber was a decendant of Shem. All Hebrews are Semites, but not all Semites are Hebrews. All Christians have have a bible with the Old Testament and New Testament, but probably couldn't name the books of the Old Testament let alone live by the word. Christ lived by the Old Testament as a Jew. He added to it with the New. Which wasn't put to writing and collected for a number of generations. Not all of the books are present, none of them are studied in the original text with an understanding of the original words. The meaning AND the content are different. Your faith is necessarily dependent on the translation and preservation of the word of God as interpreted and colated by man hundreds of years after his time with man. And revised for a millenium by the Catholic church to suit its tastes and power struggles. To deny Judaism as a spirtual experience, or Catholics as a spiritual following isn't what you meant to say. But those words came out by saying that Christianity is a spritual experience and different than Catholicism. Catholics are Christians by definition. Protestants were formed through the Reformation in order to begin to return the teachings of Christ to the populace. Since then the Baptist Church has grown into an organization of its own. As Christ warned, all teachings are in the individual and to be shared in small groups. But that is true for all religious views. The larger the church, the more the church threatens to supercede the doctrine it was formed to spread. The problem is in the meanings of words and the understandings and misunderstandings between people. All religious truths are in the experience. Until the end, words will only bring distance. Doctrine and dogma are the curse of every organized religion. And words are the root of all distinction. There is one universe that has borne one existence. There are many interpretations and understandings of that world. Language brings us together and keeps us apart. Chief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief March 10, 2003 Share Chief Member March 10, 2003 not every Catholic/Baptist/Methodist/Pentacostal is a christian Yes, this is the reason why the first page has ten people saying something about what a Christian is. "real" and "labeled" Christians were never discussed or a definition provided to counter what the word actually means--those who believe in Christ as the Son of God. Now we can have real and labeled Christians, practicing or not, different levels of faith and terms for any combination of all these things. In the end, the majority of Americans would have known Protestant as the word he meant for Christian. To say that those who question their faith or have a different belief, or interpret the Bible differently are not "real" Christians is VERY problematic. Mostly because people don't know what you mean, and partly because you have judged your interpretation of a millenia-old text that has been translated, edited, censored, abridged and re-translated, re-edited, re-censored, and re-abridged more accurate than someone who believes differently. These differences arise within a church and BAM! Martin Luther's reformation nets not just Lutheranism but Calvinists. Soon Mother Anne has Quakers, Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science... Your personal experience is "real", your words are the "labels". I believe that we will have a chance to share our real experience without the burden of labels some many years from now. I only hope our words don't distance us before then. Chief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief March 10, 2003 Share Chief Member March 10, 2003 not every Catholic/Baptist/Methodist/Pentacostal is a christian Yes, this is the reason why the first page has ten people saying something about what a Christian is. "real" and "labeled" Christians were never discussed or a definition provided to counter what the word actually means--those who believe in Christ as the Son of God. Now we can have real and labeled Christians, practicing or not, different levels of faith and terms for any combination of all these things. In the end, the majority of Americans would have known Protestant as the word he meant for Christian. To say that those who question their faith or have a different belief, or interpret the Bible differently are not "real" Christians is VERY problematic. Mostly because people don't know what you mean, and partly because you have judged your interpretation of a millenia-old text that has been translated, edited, censored, abridged and re-translated, re-edited, re-censored, and re-abridged more accurate than someone who believes differently. These differences arise within a church and BAM! Martin Luther's reformation nets not just Lutheranism but Calvinists. Soon Mother Anne has Quakers, Mary Baker Eddy's Christian Science... Your personal experience is "real", your words are the "labels". I believe that we will have a chance to share our real experience without the burden of labels some many years from now. I only hope our words don't distance us before then. Chief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX March 10, 2003 Share NOFX Member March 10, 2003 bah, whoever said buddhist can go to heaven or agrees with him...you guys got everything wrong. Do you think a buddhist wants to go to heaven? do you think he believes in the christian heaven? Do you think he would want to be converted? How would you feel if a bunch of buddhist came to your country and trying to tell you the REAL truth? But anyone who knows buddhist knows they arent like that. They arent missionary, meaning they dont have to recruit ppl to join them. Enugh ppl see what they are doing to join free willingly. So I guess I should say, how would you feel if a bunch of Nazi's came in our country and tried to get you to convert? It just seems that ppl dont respect other ppl's believe when they try to get people to convert. Escepially when noone is no more right than the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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