auggybendoggy May 10, 2006 Author Share auggybendoggy Member May 10, 2006 yea cobalt they want great stuff and I'm not as learned on the new stuff. Heres another question I have. RAID... whats it for? I offer seperate partitions for work and home use (for those who use their pc's for work) so virus' don't go after the work. Thas if they agree to use the internet on a seperate partition. So video people can boot into the video partition and theres no network connections there to help protect from virus'. Normal use allows all progs. I then add a 400gb sataii 3gbs data drive in logical and "my docs" is moved there so all the stuff they save is seperate from the boot drive (160gb). Thus if a wipe is needed and imaging required all the files they have are still there. I'm reading alot of people who use RAID and I don't know the dynamics to it apart of 2 drives act as one. can you educate me on this? please : ) Thanks Aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 10, 2006 Share SiX Member May 10, 2006 auggy do you have aim or some other im, i have them all. i can perty much help answer all yoru questions. six Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appalachian_fox May 10, 2006 Share appalachian_fox Member May 10, 2006 GIYF... A quick, english definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID A neat site with good images: http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 10, 2006 Share SiX Member May 10, 2006 (edited) Well in respects to amd vs intel, amd clearly wins http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/05/09/amd/page16.html After comparing the dent in your wallet, the other areas in which amd out preforms and and the fact your not supporting an evil company, after all the hired Dr. Evil Who wins in the austin powers movies. . . I mean amd just knocked out intel in this bit http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6389077-1.html Raid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID For a desktop hdd application that demands preformance I would recomend: 1 Western digital Raptor for system drive, 150Gbs look better every day but a 74Gb could be more than enough, they are worth it. I have 2 in my computer, they fly. No real need to raid 0 with this guy but you could do raid 0 for preformance on the system drive. note it can be hard to make an image for this. we can dicuss this later though. . . Storage, is best done by getting 2 larger drives. Around the 300 gb range like you selected would be perfect. though you could do what ever you want. but any how raid-1 is the ticket here. Anyone that tells you you sould do raid 5 or something like that has to much money and raid 5 belongs in a server. Any questions feel free to ask me. BTW I work for the Geek Squad in mpls, nickname at work is Agent Hardware. . . Edited May 10, 2006 by SiX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 10, 2006 Share SiX Member May 10, 2006 (edited) Working on mb / cpu options. Most stable route. ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail 150 ish http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813131517 AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4200BVBOX - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819103547 Better value. Would be the mother board above and the opty. only concern is that the mb is not certifyed for opteron use. but i have not see or heard of any issues with that mb and opterons. in fact im using an opteron right now. AMD Opteron 170 Denmark 1000MHz HT 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail 400 ish http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819103586 There are some other combos out there but im thinking your looking for stability. foxconn does make some amd motherboards out there but I dont know anything about them seem to be doing ok in the reviews on newegg though. Edited May 10, 2006 by SiX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage May 10, 2006 Share Guest zerodamage Guests May 10, 2006 If you are comfortable with Overclocking, I would go with the Opteron 165. It is cheaper than that 4200 and it has a larger cache of 1Mb on each core. It also overclocks easily. I easily overclocked mine to 2.25 on stock voltages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek-Almighty May 10, 2006 Share Tek-Almighty Member May 10, 2006 guys the main purpose is Video. I have done much reading on multimedia and 64bit amd's compare (outperform BARELY) a low end pentium 4. As a musician working Cubase and digital audio and using Vegas Video (sony) I did alot of research on this area and yea AMD does kick on gaming but in multimedia I have to spend alot of money for the high end amd. WITH THAT SAID... I've not done any reading on AMD dual core. Will Vista take advantage of this? heres another proposition to make to the client... What about getting a mb that supports the EE (dual core) and purchasing a reg p4 ht in it. Then if and when vista is released then purchase a dual core and plug it in and go? I am sure they will want pentium anyhow. I'll still give amd a try but you can forget it on ati. : ) sorry I know you ATI people are so sold on the horse power but I've had to many failures to give em a chance. now concerning the heat. I planned on going with a zalaman copper cooler to help the cooling on the chip no matter what chip i go with. the thing is awsome. silent, and fins in 360 degrees around the fan. it looks like a flower. Really nice piece for cpu cooling. However I do want to be sure about the chip so a little more dialouge would be helpful. Can you guys bring me to date on my expectation of AMD with dual core or 64 bit support? the last note on video work is I think it's cheaper to build a network of lowend pc's (like building 4 pc's) and network render to them rather than trying to build a pc thats 4x faster than the average pc. Any thoughts? Aug Aug Whu hut??? AMD 64 "barely outperforms Intel..." FTW are you reading.... AS far as game benchmarks go, AMD rules Intel in any type of benchmark you want to argue...if you ar talking video...(not game)...I believe most mags and websites I've read have the AMD 64's at the top of the pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zerodamage May 10, 2006 Share Guest zerodamage Guests May 10, 2006 This board is also a better board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813131004 It is the ATI chipset with the ULI southbridge, which is what you want. This thing is an overclocker's wet dream. It can OC to extremely high levels without the need to lower the Hyper Transport setting. Great mobo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy May 10, 2006 Author Share auggybendoggy Member May 10, 2006 I don't recall all the different articles but p4 scores very high on video and audio benchs. If you read I stated the 64amd does outperform but not by miles. In games it kills but in video editing and audio editing it's not a huge diff. Something about floating points for p4 makes it great for these purposes which is why you'll hardly ever see any professional audio pc co. building amd's. They might now with amd64. anyhow a high end A64 is high priced. also last I used winxp64 the drivers were all crappy and half of em failed so I'm a bit reserved on just jumping on the 64bit bandwagon. I'm not making any arguments (please educate me when I'm wrong). Perhaps 64bit pc's are all running great now cause it's been about 4 months since i built that 64bit sys. Thanks zero for that I'll give it a read. Aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 10, 2006 Share SiX Member May 10, 2006 That board zero has linked may be ok, I dont know much about it but its made buy asus so its got to be good. Zero keep in mind that hes not the one using the system, someone else is, stability is important. We all know optys can over clock but they are not certified to run on desktop boards, though the do, and that anytime you overclock the system bugs creep out of the wood work, maybe not right away but they do keep that in mind. Were not desiging a gaming machine here were making something do work for someones job / business. My friend runs xp64 bit on the asus I linked and has no issues using it. Most of the driver thing has worked ist self out. Though old stuff wont work with 64 and usual has no drivers, and thats the bottom line. What I suggest you do is tell us what mobo and cpu vid card and others hard that are going into the system and that way we can judge the system. Basicaly we need to know the specs. I do hope you read the links I posted and understand that the amds just kicked intels all overe the place. Even if you dont buy their 'high end' they still win over intel. arg I shudder to think that intel has used so much propiganda that people still think they are better. Amd64 cpus beat intel by mile stones due to the onboard memory controler and other improvements. For instance if you look at the ram timings, the tighter you go the faster you go. Intels setup technology wize is a generation behind amds. Thats a fact intel is a second rate product, they just throw horsepower at the problem instead of streamlining it. Sure you can make a brick fly, as long as it has enough power. Then take this into consideration. Power consumption. Even if you pay more for that amd, you'l have it back with in a year. It's a 40watt difference. I Back to how Amd rules the world. You realy need to read up on the technology behind their stuff integrated memory controler = faster access to the ram. faster access to the ram = faster reformance when pulling things off of the ram. Why do you thing conroe the next intell will have like 4megs of cache, well its because intel still hasent developed an memory controler solution that works well and they need the cash to makeup for what they loose else where. Amd will win the processor wars and I am their champion. Untill intel shows me that their technology is better. Note: If your looking into overclocking seriously look into dfi, they make some sweet stuff. Way more tweaking options than I have ever seen, even on my old asus, and my friends sli-deluxe. Dfi even has their own forms, they even will allow you to do minor modifications to the motherboard and if it breaks rma it. check this out www.dfi-street.com It's overclocking and general use forms that dfi employs 2 full time moderaotrs to help communicate and resolve issues with their products. I don't recall all the different articles but p4 scores very high on video and audio benchs. If you read I stated the 64amd does outperform but not by miles. In games it kills but in video editing and audio editing it's not a huge diff. See the articles that I just posted above, its more than just a little bit. Something about floating points for p4 makes it great for these purposes which is why you'll hardly ever see any professional audio pc co. building amd's. They might now with amd64. Thats due to the massive ammounts of cache that they dump onto their cpus to makeup for what they lack in memory bandwith to the system ram. onece any chunk of data no longer fits on the cache they will start to dive bomb in preformance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy May 11, 2006 Author Share auggybendoggy Member May 11, 2006 I'm not into the whole intel vs Amd thing. So I'll leave that to the pros. I use a p4 3.0 ghz running cubase with stylus rmx, atmoshpere and the AWSOME gigastudio and it's a great machine. So I tend to think no matter what I throw at em they'll be happy. With that said... I want to get them the best bang for their buck. When I built the AMD 64 there were no drivers avail on the cd or the internet!!!! I was tinkled. So do you think an AMD64 is the way to go? I'd like to keep the cost to about 200 for the cpu and 200 for mb. That should supply the Horses to get the job done. As for audio, I'm putting a professional audio card in so I'm not worried about that. Prob a maudio delta 1010lt Very nice for audio editing and mixing. It will be a dual scree DVI 7600GT (don't even try to persuade me to ATI cause it's a waste of your time). Viewsonic 19" digital wide screen LCD monitors MB and CPU are what I really am debating. at this point I'm looking at AMD64 HT, and P4 dual core (for future upgrade in OS) so lets talk AMD64. whats a good bang for the buck...There are all kinds of AMD's optron, venice, newcastle??? what are these and which is a good one? The FX and X are out as the cost is just a bit too high. so lets talk p4 dual core (non ee) vs amd64 (non x or fx). Take it away guys : ) Aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly May 11, 2006 Share dragonfly Member May 11, 2006 I also run a "recording studio" out of my appartment for my own works. How many tracks are you putting through cubase? I'm using adobe audition, but have also used cubase. I know my pc is old but im running 14+ stereo tracks and it starts to bog down pretty bad. I do also know that audition isnt the easiest on my hardware. However, I've recorded at various studios and the best ones are using mac's... though i'm sure you dont want to go that route, neither do i! However, the second best that I've been to have been ones with amd cores. Of course these are running pro tools and the likes, not cubase or audition, but dang they run it well. Have you been to other studios to see what they're using and what works for them too? How many tracks are you running? waht bitrate? that all changes stuff too for the audio. this is simply out of curiosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy May 11, 2006 Author Share auggybendoggy Member May 11, 2006 dark, YAAA protools rocks indeed!!! Ya alot of musicians do use macs but Pc's are starting to move in. Since the p4 and amd64 have such g5 like power at lower costs many home musicians are finding pcs are the better route. I havent used audition. If I could I'd go sonar as I like it a bit more than pro-tools for it's midi and recording interface however Tools has all the STUFF!!!! EXPENSIVE! Most Pc DAWS are using a p4 but I have seen some 64amd's on sale as well. I'm using Cubase VST32 as SX lacks drag and drop midi files from any VST. That means any midi groove file from RMX has to be brought in through the file menu!!! YUK! yea I've been in other studios (mostly pro-tools). Dude have you seen digital performer on the mac. NICE!!! it's right there with tools. They've got this hit point midi feature for video syncing that ROCKS! anyhow do you have any VST's or GS. Kontact is Gigastudio copy. fill me on on what you do. Aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 11, 2006 Share SiX Member May 11, 2006 MB and CPU are what I really am debating. at this point I'm looking at AMD64 HT, and P4 dual core (for future upgrade in OS) so lets talk AMD64. whats a good bang for the buck...There are all kinds of AMD's optron, venice, newcastle??? what are these and which is a good one? The FX and X are out as the cost is just a bit too high. so lets talk p4 dual core (non ee) vs amd64 (non x or fx). Take it away guys : ) Aug im just a little confused. so what your saying is that you want to compare a dual core processor to a non dual core... ? do you have the min and recomended requirments on the application were going to work with? p4 dual cores need to be matched with amd x2s p4 non dual cores need to be matched with amd single cores. the only case i would compare a single core amd to a dual p4 is if you were overclocking an opteron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt May 11, 2006 Share Cobalt Member May 11, 2006 Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't this conversation just going around in circles? Last I read this thread you had already decided on an AMD processor and one of the many Asus motherboards. How much total money do you have to spend on this computer when all is said and done? Brand loyalty in the computer industry now is something that is going to get you into trouble. AMD is ruling the market right now because their processors are better well designed and more stable. The Conroe and Yonah cores are going to be something that could likely change that. With that being said, if you are hardcore Intel no one is going to change your mind about that even if we don't necessarily agree with you about it. So you might just want to wait for a Conroe processor to get released and buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy May 11, 2006 Author Share auggybendoggy Member May 11, 2006 cobalt, I am asking about amd64 optron, venice, newcastle... what are they and which are advantageous also if anyone can make a case for a dual core intel i'm good with that. I have to relearn alot of technology...like if an ee processor is used you need a PS that has dual rail 2x4 (whatever that means) but it's real. i read it in the intel manual. So I'm trying to get some advice on the AMD's and anything on intel. I KNOW NOTHING about optron, venice and I trust people on this forum more than any review. Aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly May 12, 2006 Share dragonfly Member May 12, 2006 dark, YAAA protools rocks indeed!!! Ya alot of musicians do use macs but Pc's are starting to move in. Since the p4 and amd64 have such g5 like power at lower costs many home musicians are finding pcs are the better route. I havent used audition. If I could I'd go sonar as I like it a bit more than pro-tools for it's midi and recording interface however Tools has all the STUFF!!!! EXPENSIVE! Most Pc DAWS are using a p4 but I have seen some 64amd's on sale as well. I'm using Cubase VST32 as SX lacks drag and drop midi files from any VST. That means any midi groove file from RMX has to be brought in through the file menu!!! YUK! yea I've been in other studios (mostly pro-tools). Dude have you seen digital performer on the mac. NICE!!! it's right there with tools. They've got this hit point midi feature for video syncing that ROCKS! anyhow do you have any VST's or GS. Kontact is Gigastudio copy. fill me on on what you do. Aug I'm not heavy into the recording yet, just dabbling in it for now (as far as teh engineering and production goes... i have the musicianship part down pat ) I'm not sure what comes with audition. I am using Boss's 770 though for programming at the moment, but no midi. I simply record it real time. I prefer that cause then you get a bit more of a "real" sound as it's never repeated lines... I just uploaded a "soft" sample of my stuff to my site (check sig) and I have just finished the last song for my cd that i've beenworking on for 2 years. The song on the site is crap bitrate for size purposes, and my sister is going to be the singing, i just wanted a template to work with. Anyway, that's it for now. GL with your new pc (or soon to be) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 12, 2006 Share SiX Member May 12, 2006 cobalt,I am asking about amd64 optron, venice, newcastle... what are they and which are advantageous also if anyone can make a case for a dual core intel i'm good with that. I have to relearn alot of technology...like if an ee processor is used you need a PS that has dual rail 2x4 (whatever that means) but it's real. i read it in the intel manual. So I'm trying to get some advice on the AMD's and anything on intel. I KNOW NOTHING about optron, venice and I trust people on this forum more than any review. Aug ok i will come up with something in a bit. but for now heres the jist venice are the newer amd64chips non dualcore. these added sse3 better cache and smaller die size. newcastle are the older one, stay away, venice and others are a better choice as they are later and better revisions. opteron refers to the server processor series. generaly more stable and with larger caches. usual will allways overclock like woah on stock cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 12, 2006 Share SiX Member May 12, 2006 So here goes. I'm listing only the specs, not mhz or rated speed. i only list the highest that they have for sse... Single core chips San Diego sse3 1mb L2 cache 90nm process Clawhammer sse2 1mb L2cache (note some have 512k) 130nm process Venice sse3 512k L2 cache 90nm process NewCastle sse2 512k L2 cache 130nm process Dual Cores Toledo sse3 128k+128k L1 cache 2x1mb L2 Cache 90nm (note the cache size here has doubled from the single cores. Manchester sse3 128k+128k L1 cache 2x512mb L2 Cache 90nm Opterons(i will only be going over the 939 versions 940 requires very expensive mbs) Venus sse3 1mb L2 90nm Denmark sse3 128k+128k L1 cache 2x1mb L2 Cache 90nm thats the difference, not much but something to keep an eye out for. do you need help understanding what all these different things mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy May 12, 2006 Author Share auggybendoggy Member May 12, 2006 (edited) are the dual cores pretty strong. I understand they are Ht where intel dual cores are not HT??? also how will they work with 64bit xp in comparison with XP prof? Aug Edited May 12, 2006 by auggybendoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 12, 2006 Share SiX Member May 12, 2006 are the dual cores pretty strong. I understand they are Ht where intel dual cores are not HT??? also how will they work with 64bit xp in comparison with XP prof? Aug yes yes(2000mhz >southBridge vs 800mhz > northbridge > soutbridge The same works equaly well, though 64 bit is suposidly faster... will work with vista Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nut May 12, 2006 Share nut Member May 12, 2006 i want vista to come out soon i want to change my setup... because im not redoing my computer till it comes out NuT-=) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt May 12, 2006 Share Cobalt Member May 12, 2006 (edited) Any 64 bit processor will work with Windows X64...in theory. In my own personal experience (and some other peoples here on the board) that particular iteration of the operating system is junk. Driver support is not really all that good and Windows doesn't appear to run any faster. It is my belief that Microsoft took the dev team off x64 to have them work on Vista. The point of the story is that you should get a 64 bit processor that is also a dual core that is made by AMD and still use standard XP Pro until Vista comes out. EDIT: On an aside, that was an awesome list Six, good work. Edited May 12, 2006 by Cobalt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy May 13, 2006 Author Share auggybendoggy Member May 13, 2006 cool, thanks guys I think you've given me enough guidance in this. I'm gonna try to talk em into AMD but I have enough info no matter what. Real quick though which one to go with toledo or manchester? Aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX May 13, 2006 Share SiX Member May 13, 2006 toledo if they can due to the larger cache size would be optimal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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