My baby is dieing

[Cujo]

sorry mag, i've been super busy the last couple days what with upgrading to core 2 duo and selling one of my gaming systems. i'll post up my suggestions tomorrow hopefully. boiler is on the right track.

 

btw, i'd definitely go x1950xt over 7900gs.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2858&p=9

 

x1950pro is above 7900gs. x1950xt would be even farther ahead. imho, worth the 40 bucks extra.

[Playaa]

Mags, first off...don't listen to all these tech-heads. ANY pc you build right now for $600 is going to play your games better than your current pc and you're not going to be disappointed in any way. So forget all this stuff about 2 gigs of memory and 800mhz vs 667mhz. You build an entirely new pc right now for $600 and it could easily last you 2 years of solid gaming and probably more. Especially if the only game you really play is CS:S

I have the case that boilersax suggested and I think it's great. Was a tad confusing on how to get the front plate off the first time but just used a screwdriver to wedge it (and didn't harm the case at all) and I have no complaints at all about the case.

 

oh yeah, also...if you get that case and happen to run into the same problem I did (my case was faulty...I could have sent it back for a replacement but I just didn't care enough...basically my power switch had a short that caused the computer to reboot itself)...if you run into that same problem...just use the reset switch as a power switch. Works perfectly fine.

[Cujo]

first off, if anyone knows how to just save carts and post a link to them that would make this much easier.

 

anyway, i tried to hit 600 but i'm a bit over. $744.96 for the below config but for the extra 150 vs getting cheaper stuff is just not worth it.

 

ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

 

Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail

 

G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory - Retail

 

SAPPHIRE 100186L Radeon X1950XT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 VIVO HDCP Video Card - Retail

 

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 Power Supply - Retail

 

 

that vid card for that price is a STEAL as well. just bought the cpu and just sold a system with that motherboard. very happy with both. i've sold many systems with that case. my god parents for one. it's very quiet and the powersupply included just makes it a STEAL. add to that the $50 mail in rebate and oh man... haha. anyway, enjoy. if you absolutely NEED to stick to $600 max then you're goin amd and a cheaper motherboard/vid card. don't get anything less than that ram as it's just not worth the ~$10 savings. i say offer to do extra chores and spend the little bit extra. you'll be glad you did.

 

btw, i'll see you at fragfest.

Edited February 16, 2007 by Cujo

[Magruter]

Sapphire? Has anyone had problems with that maker?

[Cujo]

Sapphire? Has anyone had problems with that maker?

 

i may as well have just said ati. they make all their own cards. sapphire just rebrands them. no issues what-so-ever.

[ZeroDamage]

first off, if anyone knows how to just save carts and post a link to them that would make this much easier.

 

anyway, i tried to hit 600 but i'm a bit over. $744.96 for the below config but for the extra 150 vs getting cheaper stuff is just not worth it.

 

ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

 

Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail

 

G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory - Retail

 

SAPPHIRE 100186L Radeon X1950XT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 VIVO HDCP Video Card - Retail

 

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 Power Supply - Retail

 

 

that vid card for that price is a STEAL as well. just bought the cpu and just sold a system with that motherboard. very happy with both. i've sold many systems with that case. my god parents for one. it's very quiet and the powersupply included just makes it a STEAL. add to that the $50 mail in rebate and oh man... haha. anyway, enjoy. if you absolutely NEED to stick to $600 max then you're goin amd and a cheaper motherboard/vid card. don't get anything less than that ram as it's just not worth the ~$10 savings. i say offer to do extra chores and spend the little bit extra. you'll be glad you did.

 

btw, i'll see you at fragfest.

 

 

A couple of items I found at slickdeals that are still ongoing.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820220088

 

I know, no heat spreader so Overclocking will be out of the question in this case. Can save a few bucks if money is a major issue.

 

THis case looks hot: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_in...;ref=performics

 

My old work built a system with this case a couple of weeks ago. No PSU in it but it is bigger than the one above and has all the cooling you need in it. PSU is on the bottom and there is a very large fan on the top.

 

 

I am still all about waiting on the video card if you can. ATI's new stuff should be out sooner rather than later and it will provide new options and bring down the prices of their older stuff. I am still handing onto my old ATI card until then, although the new Nvidia cards keep tempting me.

 

 

If you are all about getting a new video card now, then look at a better card than that. Definitely better worth an additional 60 bucks for a card that will last you longer and is dx10 able.

 

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...st=pricegrabber

[Cujo]

zero, i picked the ram i did cause of the timings. heat spreaders are useless. also, overclocking the cpu gives you much more performance than overclocking the memory.

 

that is a nice case but i was tryin to get a case and psu together cause he's on a budget. 50 bucks for the case i listed is cheaper than just the power supply by itself. it has a 120mm fan at the back and space for one at the front so cooling is fine. i do like that case you posted though. i just go by the philosophy of "it's what's inside that counts".

 

good find on that vid card and DEFINITELY worth the extra 60.

 

i WOULD not wait for ati's new cards as it's gonna be april-may before we see any in this price range. dx10 is STILL overrated. i don't think mag is goin vista anyway...

 

mag, if you get that mobo and cpu i'll overclock it to 2.4ghz for you at frag fest.

[boiler]

first off, if anyone knows how to just save carts and post a link to them that would make this much easier.

 

anyway, i tried to hit 600 but i'm a bit over. $744.96 for the below config but for the extra 150 vs getting cheaper stuff is just not worth it.

 

ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

 

Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail

 

G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory - Retail

 

SAPPHIRE 100186L Radeon X1950XT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 VIVO HDCP Video Card - Retail

 

Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 Power Supply - Retail

 

 

that vid card for that price is a STEAL as well. just bought the cpu and just sold a system with that motherboard. very happy with both. i've sold many systems with that case. my god parents for one. it's very quiet and the powersupply included just makes it a STEAL. add to that the $50 mail in rebate and oh man... haha. anyway, enjoy. if you absolutely NEED to stick to $600 max then you're goin amd and a cheaper motherboard/vid card. don't get anything less than that ram as it's just not worth the ~$10 savings. i say offer to do extra chores and spend the little bit extra. you'll be glad you did.

 

btw, i'll see you at fragfest.

lol, thats more than $100 over the stated budget, but a very nice system. Wish that motherboard had been available when I did my upgrade. Sweet deal on the case/PSU too. Assuming there will be upgrading down the road however, why does he NEED to go AMD to stay closer to the $600?

 

Using the parts you mentioned above but substituting the 7900gs video card would save $85 and bring the total (after mail in rebates) to $609.96, much closer to the budget. What's the point in spending more money on a video card now that isn't DX10 capable? I'm just curious, because even 7600GTs or X1600s can handle CS:S just fine right now. IMO no sense in spending more money on a better vid card unless it's going to be DX10 when cheaper ones will run everything you need them to run until you're ready for another upgrade. My 7800GT is about on par performance wise with the 7900GS, and I can max out my settings on 1280x1024 on almost every game I have thrown at it. I think the advantages of going with a Core 2 Duo and keeping that nice motherboard over an AMD outweigh the video card performance difference. That's of course if you're dealing with a fairly strict budget, which I get the impression would be the case here.

 

Anyways, I'm not trying to argue or anything, I know you know a lot more about building systems and hardware than I do, but I thought I had a couple valid points I wanted to throw out there. I think this video card thing would be a good point to discuss not just for mags, but for anyone who needs something to hold them over for a while till DX10 gets cheaper and ATI gets their stuff out and running.

 

Just my two cents worth. I know what it's like to build on a tight budget, so I wanted to make sure he considers all options to stay closer to his budget and still get a pretty nice system.

[Magruter]

I'm not looking for a beast of a machine, i play CSS exclusively. I might try a few games every once in a while, but i'm always coming back to CSS. ATM i can't see sprays, my textures are junk, and really can't enjoy the game. Any kind of AK sniping is out of the picture, everything is a blob when far away.

[Cujo]

sorry, boiler. didn't realize the 7900gs was 85 bucks cheaper. are you sure it's 85 bucks cheaper? lost said it was a 40 dollar difference... you're right though, he plays exclusively css so it would be better to save the money if it is indeed 85 bucks. if it's 40 however it's a no brainer. i play almost exclusively css but i enjoy other games at times to like nfs carbon and the occasional ghost recon which require better cards.

 

amd is cheaper which is why i said go amd if it's too much over budget. core2 and a cheaper vid card would be a better buy. core2 is definitely a big performance increase in css cause it's so rediculously cpu bound. can't wait til they give it dual core support.

 

btw, i went over the budget cause i think the extra $100 is worth it if he can swing it.

Edited February 16, 2007 by Cujo

[lostoften]

My link was to an open box, that was $40 more. However, it must be gone.

[boiler]

I agree cujo, that case is a much better call than the one I posted + PSU. I think it would definitely be worth the extra cost in the short term until the rebates clear.

[ZeroDamage]

zero, i picked the ram i did cause of the timings. heat spreaders are useless. also, overclocking the cpu gives you much more performance than overclocking the memory.

 

that is a nice case but i was tryin to get a case and psu together cause he's on a budget. 50 bucks for the case i listed is cheaper than just the power supply by itself. it has a 120mm fan at the back and space for one at the front so cooling is fine. i do like that case you posted though. i just go by the philosophy of "it's what's inside that counts".

 

good find on that vid card and DEFINITELY worth the extra 60.

 

i WOULD not wait for ati's new cards as it's gonna be april-may before we see any in this price range. dx10 is STILL overrated. i don't think mag is goin vista anyway...

 

mag, if you get that mobo and cpu i'll overclock it to 2.4ghz for you at frag fest.

 

 

The thing with the RAM is that it needs to be able to clock higher with the FSB if you are going to overclock the CPU. Do not get me wrong, G-skill is on the top of my list for RAM these days due to price/performance ratio. Heat Spreaders help with some memory especially when overclocking is taking place although it just depends on the RAM. It often times is just for show. I am just thinking price for Mags since this thing is a little over price. I picked that case because the one you chose looks to be small which will make the newer video cards impossible to fit. Usually the PSU's that come with cases suck to boot.

 

I chose a better Video Card because of the fact that Valve is always updating the Source Engine and with Episode 2 coming out soon along with Team Fortress 2 and Portal, a little better video card would be the best way to go. It's not all about DX10, it's about Nvidia's new design which newer and newer games can benefit from, including CSS.

 

The Overclock for Mags should be easy and will turn a 600 dollar system into a 850 dollar system.

Edited February 16, 2007 by ZeroDamage

[ZeroDamage]

I Know you do not like Ultra PSU's Cujo but here is a 500Watt one which is free after rebate if the second Case were to be considered.

http://shop1.outpost.com/%7BFd8491ttM2j3nq...:Homepage:Spot1

[Cujo]

well we are just giving him options. it is his decision. the reason i pick antec cases is they come with antec power supplies. there are no better case w/ psu combinations out there. it should fit newer vid cards just fine.

 

you don't need better ram to overclock. with core 2 duo and a64 you can just set dividers so the ram runs at it's correct speed.

 

ati actually seems to make cards which newer and newer games can benefit from. imho, the x1950 is far more technologically advanced then a 7900gs. though for the price difference as i said above the 8800gts 320mb is definitely worth it.

 

btw, the next major update for the source engine will be multi threading support. does anyone know if episode 2 will be dx10?

[ZeroDamage]

I am not so sure if the timings in the case of the memory will make much of a difference if any at all at stock speeds. The timings of the Patriot is 5-5-5-16 while the G-Skill is 4-4-4-12. If the RAM is not going to be overclocked then I say go with the cheaper Patriot. If you plan on overclocking the RAM a little, then go with the Gskill since the better timings will give you more headroom for overclocking. Over all, the Gskill is better RAM and worth the small amount more money IMO. Cujo is right.

 

 

I am not so sure about Ep-2 being DX10. I do remember reading an article that DX10 is in the works for the Source engine at some point. Though we all know that things change often when it comes to Valve.

[Cujo]

I am not so sure if the timings in the case of the memory will make much of a difference if any at all at stock speeds. The timings of the Patriot is 5-5-5-16 while the G-Skill is 4-4-4-12. If the RAM is not going to be overclocked then I say go with the cheaper Patriot. If you plan on overclocking the RAM a little, then go with the Gskill since the better timings will give you more headroom for overclocking. Over all, the Gskill is better RAM and worth the small amount more money IMO. Cujo is right.

 

 

I am not so sure about Ep-2 being DX10. I do remember reading an article that DX10 is in the works for the Source engine at some point. Though we all know that things change often when it comes to Valve.

 

ya, i mean for 20 bucks 4-4-4-12 is better value. you're looking about 5% higher fps in source.

 

either way, i CAN'T wait for multi-thread support.

[Sgt. Slaughterâ„¢-TopBrass]

well we are just giving him options. it is his decision. the reason i pick antec cases is they come with antec power supplies. there are no better case w/ psu combinations out there. it should fit newer vid cards just fine.

 

you don't need better ram to overclock. with core 2 duo and a64 you can just set dividers so the ram runs at it's correct speed.

 

ati actually seems to make cards which newer and newer games can benefit from. imho, the x1950 is far more technologically advanced then a 7900gs. though for the price difference as i said above the 8800gts 320mb is definitely worth it.

 

btw, the next major update for the source engine will be multi threading support. does anyone know if episode 2 will be dx10?

 

I don't know if they have said for sure if they are planning to update the source engine for directx 10. The overhaul for multithreading is a big step. They may save the directx 10 update for later. This is my best guess and is NOT fact...so take lightly.

[ZeroDamage]

Yeah, I am thinking that DX10 may just be a new engine altogether. That takes years and years though so who knows for sure.