Dinosaurs, get your Dinosaurs here...

[Watchtower]

"I can in turn say to you you cannot prove those dinosaur and ancient human bones are not planted by game show hosts around the world who are conspiring to disprove the bible. Sounds ridiculous right? But you still cant prove it. "

Very bad point you make here.. How could any named gameshow host or anyone else for that matter create part of the earth that is yet uncovered? This point is proven. Countless paleontologist uncover fossils everyday.. Some even believe the bible.. They are not trying to discount any religion, but bring to us a knowledge of our past. Now unless that gameshow host is God. Which some people believe. That God is tricking us with these bones and they never really existed.. hahahaaahahaha I will never understand the kind of mindset you'd ahve to be in to believe an ounce of that kind of thinking. Poor people.

What are your(believers) thoughts on dinosaurs.. Did they exist when man did? Did we kill them off? Did they even exist?

Or you could tell me what you think of this website after browsing through it pretty good.. http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/

[auggybendoggy]

hahahahah!!!! Pat Sayjack is God. Is that what your arguing? hahahahahhahaha

 

My point is not so much an xfile its the point you werent there and you dont know anything is true

except that which you handle. You have to have faith (some faith) to believe people. Thats my point.

I have faith in people the the hebrew/greek writing were passed down and now tell us about God.

I believe these writings are not myths written by men. They are written different from myths and

unlike mormonism who don't have a shred of evidence we have the acient texts.

 

Concerning Dino's. I love em. I believe they existed but I also believe the earth is much older than 10,000 years.

I'm not a Genesis literalist. I tend to think Gensis my perhaps be written sort of like the last book (revelation) with lots of symbolism. So saying the earth is 100,000,000,000 years old doesn't bother me.

 

Late,

 

Aug

[Playaa]

yeah I believe Dino's were here at the same time as man...the Bible even mentions creatures that could be taken as dino's (leviathan)

 

and I DO take Genesis literally. The reason I don't have trouble with seeing Revelation as symbolism is because there is alot of "symbolism" and "parables" in the New Testament...whereas the Old Testament (which in reality is a different grouping of books altogether) has no other symbolism in it...it's just a collection of histories (and the occasional pr0n between Solomen and his chica)

I have absolutely no trouble thinking that an all-powerful God COULD and WOULD create the earth in 7 days...could he have done it in 1 day? Heck yeah...why didn't he? I don't know...I think it might have something to do with the "holy numbers" in the Bible.

ever notice how the numbers 3, 7, 12, 40, 144, etc. appear ALOT in the Bible?

[SemperFi]

hehe some of you may notice that i am writing this sort of from somewhere else. sure it says the earth was created in 7 days but were those 24 hours days? could they have been 25 hour days? it doesnt say how long the first day was? or was that day even 10,000 or 10,000,000 or 100,000,000 million years?

Edited December 16, 2003 by SemperFi

[Playaa]

well if I remember correctly (we're going to take the stance of "the Bible is correct" here, otherwise my post is pointless to even read), Genesis was told to Moses(?) upon Mount Sanai when he recieved the Ten Commandments. That being said...don't you think that God would have told Moses how long it took him? What point is there to God saying "day" to Moses when he meant "1,000 years"?...that assumption holds absolutely no basis and is mostly a view people use to not hafta deal with those who say the earth is freakin old...so generally it's a copout...(not insulting you Semper, just saying that view has zero basis)

[Watchtower]

I agree Playaa.. Looking at the bible it says "Days".. Which thinking about would be a Godly feat. To create a world in 7 days.. To argue that 1 day could = 1000000 years is like... I dont know, but if it makes it easier for you to belive then do it. If it makes you question everything, maybe you should really think about it.

Now this one passage about a "leviathan".. "There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming with creatures beyond numberâ€â€living things both large and small. There the ships go to and fro, and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there. These all look to you to give them their food at the proper time. "

This is not talking about dinosaurs persay.. Just 1 type of big sea creature that people believed existed becasue the oceans were a big and scary place.. NOt a world dominated by large carnivorous beasts.. That would be a story in itself, telling about how moses fended off the velociraptor or any other creature back then.. Thats why I couldn't believe that man came first.. Now if you can interpret the bible to say that the animals were here and lived long before man was created, then I could possibly believe that they died out Before man was created.. But the bible does not speak of this. This is telling me the bible isn't an all knowing, all encompassing history of our planet.. Just a brief glimpse on mideivel times and people trying to figure everything out..

[auggybendoggy]

so what about 7 literal days but not consecutive. Scriptures do not say consecutive days. Could there be 100,000,000 years between each literal creation day? I think some cat named hugh ross believes that.

 

The adam naval theory is the big question for believers to question the age of the earth. Did God create adam with a belly button since he had no imbelicul cord (sorry if i mispelled)? Did God create trees with rings in the trunks? Did God create stars 100,000,000,000 light years from earth with their light already shining upon the earth?

 

Also I know some people believe that the fallen angels wiped out life on earth becuase of Genesis' translation...

"and the earth was (can also be translated became) formless and void" meaning some people think there was form and life on it prior to the 7 days of creation...notice how the devil is already on earth (the snake) in genesis in the garden of eden?

 

Any thoughts anyone

 

Auggy

[Playaa]

don't have time to go after verses right now.

but the devil thing...yeah even though the story about Satan being cast from Heaven is later than the Bible I'm pretty sure it happened before Creation (well "before" as we see time that is)

the Belly Button thing...I'm almost 100% positive that SOMEHWERE in Genesis it says something about "creatured whole" (or mature as some translations read)

 

as for the Dino's...I know there are only about 2 verses that mention creatures that we could see as Dinosaurs...don't know why.

I do know however that IF the Flood is true then it would be a perfect time for the Dino's to have died out...you have 2 of all kinds of animal...and 2 big T-Rex's....what's gonna feed em for long?

Plus the earth would no longer be the tropical paradise it was supposed to have been (check out the water canopy theory)...so Dino's wouldn't thrive anymore.

[Watchtower]

Well thats why I cant believe in the whole Noahs ark thing.. Back then they couldn't fathom all of the different animals that lived on the planet.. It Was possible to almost imagine and entire bunch of their Known animals to all fit on one Huge boat and be transported.. And I guess if God was overseeing this trip, he would keep them fed somehow.. I dunno. And Dinosaurs didn't just live in a tropical climate.. You have ones that lived/live in the sea, small ones that live on land in "border" climates.. ALthough being cold blooded, this did somewhat limit their range.. Although obviously some forms did survive(lizards, alligators, birds etc..) and still thrive today..

[auggybendoggy]

and what about peradactyls. Where did they go?

 

Auggy

[Playaa]

well about the Ark thing...it does say 2 of every KIND of animal (if I remember correctly)...which means you don't need 2 chihuahua's and 2 saint bernards....just 2 dogs...

 

and the pterodactyls...they all got shot down...or something...

 

but really, if my theory about the water canopy holds water (HA!) then that would explain things like pterodactyls as well.

as for the dino's in the ocean...the ocean is the last great frontier...it is probably about 90% unexplored.

and fishing boats have been finding bodies of animals that they don't know what they are (it happened in the 80's once I think)

so maybe the dino's in the ocean are still living...maybe they just don't reproduce at a huge rate...I mean rabbits have like 10 babies a year....humans have on average 3 in thier lives....humpback whales (I think) only have 1 in thier life...get what I mean?

[Watchtower]

exactly.. Dinosaurs are still with us if you read my last post.. It's just the big ones aren't.. The ones that could get cover and snuggle together for warmth made it while the big ones that were more needy died out.. Prehistoric life is all around us..

And the 2 of every animal thing still dosent hold up.. Think about how many animals... wow. And back then their view on the planet was very narrow which made it almost impossible but..

[Playaa]

....but God was involved

 

man that's such an easy answer.

 

but really...2 of every animal REALLY doesn't seem that bad when you cut out the different breeds...2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 elephants, 2 zebra's, 2 giraffe's, no water animals, 2 birds...anyone know how big the Ark really was?

I can't remember exactly but I have something like 5 football fields in my head...

[Watchtower]

why no water animals? No seals or sea lions? How did they differentiate the different species? We still have a problem to this day doing so.. Thats alot of animals! In biblical eyes though it wasn't very many.. All they knew was what was around them.. Maybe a hundred or so? I like the topic of the ark..

[dwEEziL]

Quick comment about what I think happened to the dinosaurs even though I haven't read through all the posts.

 

I believe Noah took dinosaurs on the ark. I also believe that prior to the flood, the earth was surrounded by a firmament, or water vapor layer (a complete cloud covering), that made the climate temperate and consistent all over the earth. The firmament acted like a greenhouse so that the temperature was the same or about the same at the equator as it was at the poles. I also believe more land mass was visible and there was no such thing as "rain" prior to the flood. This is why Noah was widely believe as insane by all his contemporaries. This firmament kept the humidity level fairly high and water was said to come from the ground.

 

When the flood occurred, the firmament was ruptured, the water was released and it rained for 40 days and 40 nights but the flood lasted much longer than that. As a result of the earth no longer being surrounded by the firmament the climate changed and those areas of the earth exposed to the more direct angle of the sun (the equator) was hotter than those that were not (the poles) and temperatures became colder farther from the equator.

 

I believe that because the climate changed, and now the earth was exposed to direct sunlight instead of filtered through the firmament, the earth no longer was suitable for some forms of life. Whether this means that certain plants that the herbivore dinosaurs ate died off, thus causing the herbivore dinosaurs to die off (and thus causing the carnivore dinosaurs who ate the herbivore dinosaurs to die off) or whether the climate was no longer suitable for the dinosaurs themselves, I don't know but I do believe it was something like this. Biblical evidence supports this in the fact that prior to the flood, humans were extremely long-lived, several hundred years old (the oldest recorded person in the Bible is Methusaleh who lived for 969 years) but after the flood, humans started dying earlier and earlier with it leveling off at around 100 years.

 

Anyway...that is what I think.

[Crowbar]

my view is in line with Dweez. It's recorded that before the flood people lived much longer, this is commonly attributed to the canopy covering the earth, not only keeping temperatures even, BUT also holding in more oxygen. The more oxygen, the longer living organizms (humans, beasts, plants) can go on living. After God broke the canopy, causing the first rainfall, the climate on earth changed quite drastically. Also, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that the continents moved some at this time too. Or perhaps were even created in the upheaval the earth went through. The Bible talks about volcanos in the water erupting, huge waves, massive storms, like nothing we've ever seen on earth. So yeah, perhaps before the flood, there was a much smaller landmass, making it easier to round up the animals to put them on the ark. I do believe that dinosaurs were around at the same time as humans (though I believe that scientists have gotten A LOT wrong about dinos, just look at the Brontosaurus, taught in schools throughout the world, even had its own United States stamp, until one day we realized that we screwed up, it never really exsisted, the head was from a different dino than the body was...oops). I mean, they find these bones all over, and then peice them together...lets see, this leg bone looks like it fits will with this tooth....and maybe that jawbone...no, probably that one...yeah, like that, viola! But, they do find some piles of bones all in one spot, I think they have those right, I just don't think they have them all down. The dinos I'm seeing on the discovery channel now are much different then the ones I grew up with. Since when did they come up with these raptors? When I was a kid, T-Rex was the big daddy, now I hear that he wasn't such a bad dude.

 

About those sea creatures...yeah, I think they're still down there. I enjoy thinking about the Loch Ness monster. It could be real. That loch is incredibly deep, and real dark, and there is a river running to the ocean. And in the '80s a Japenese fishing boat haulled up a HUGE rotted carcass of no-one-knows-what in their nets. They got some pictures of it, but it stunk so bad they threw it back. It was BIG though, and didn't look like any whale we know about.

[Playaa]

heh...in looking up information on velociraptors (which aren't as bad-A as Jurrassic Park made em out to be) I found this:

In perhaps the only fossilized example of actual dinosaur behavior, a Velociraptor was found in a death struggle with a Protoceratops in 1971.  Both skeletons were found intact.  Somehow they were both buried while the Velociraptor was attacking.  The odds of this occurring at the exact moment are probably astronomical.

I find things like that to be a GREAT evidence for Noah's flood...an intense pressure or some massive catastrophe is the ONLY thing that could have killed and fossilized these 2 in the middle of a fight. All the information I can find doesn't tell where this fossil was found...but they do mention a huge "sandstorm" probably killing them...yet I've never seen a sandstorm cause enough pressure to fossilize something...(think of the type of weight needed for the "crush coal into diamonds" myth...like that type of pressure)

I think the only example we have of modern day fossilization in action is mount Vesuvius and Pompay...those people were fossilized (I think) by the ash.

[auggybendoggy]

I dont buy the lochness. I saw a special how they drug out remote subs, Top of the line sonar and these guys all said "aint nothing down there not even caves to explore". I lost my wishful thinking at that time. Do you suppose Sasquach is real too? I don't buy that. Also if Dino's were on the ark how come they didn't repopulate like the rest. Don't you think we'd have hebrew, asyrian, myan and egyptian tales of this. I dont recall ever reading about David or Adam or anyone running from a T-rex. I'm not saying they were real, I'm saying I don't think they were around the time of the ark. Otherwise I think we'd see em today. Besides this I believe the bones are petrefied where items found from a few thousand years are not. I know nothing about fossilization mind you. But I don't see how God would tell em put 2 of each land animal in 7 pairs (male and female) clean - 2 pairs (male and female) unclean - 7 pairs (male and female) birds. Alot of people think its only 1 male lion and 1 female. But then again like LOTR people don't pay attention. I had to get that HS in.

 

So if all these dino's were on the ark how come they're not around today for us to marvel at?

 

Auggy

[jane]

all this talk bout something we dont have evidence for? Wow! We ARE a bunch of faithful people! LOL! Huh I guess I'm just sorta in the mode of Auggy's first post.

 

We dont know for sure anything that happened then, or even when "then" was. We weren't there(cop-out?). No one was, as far as the geological and theological records show. If we go by the geologists, we're looking at lots of millions of years seperating dinos and man. If we go by the bible(as its written), we're looking at a day...

 

So, as far as this believer is concerned, I dont care. Honestly, I think it happened along the lines that Playaa, Dweez, and Crow suggested. But who knows? Its all speculation on incomplete data. No matter who is talking, there is no way to say "I know for sure, because of this".

 

 

Beliefs are more powerful than facts.

 

Guys, if we have paitience, maybe we'll find out the truth when we die. Maybe we wont. I guess we'll see. Or we wont Are you following me? Cuz I got lost about six minutes ago....

[dwEEziL]

So if all these dino's were on the ark how come they're not around today for us to marvel at?

 

Auggy

Do I and Crow need to repeat our posts up above? They are not around because the climate was drastically different from before the flood and was no longer suitable for their survival. BTW, the Komodo dragon, IIRC, is related to the dinosaurs.

[auggybendoggy]

Then why would God say put em in the ark so they can repopulate the earth?

 

Is God somewhat a silly God? I don't buy that reason.

 

Sorry

[auggybendoggy]

Isnt Enoch older than Methusela?

 

Aug

[SwOOp]

A truck driver frequently traveled through this one town, where the courthouse sat on the side of this well traveled road.

 

Throughout most of the day, there were always plenty of lawyers that walked along this particluar road. Because of this, it was a commom practice for him, to try and hit any pedestrian lawyer with his truck as he sped by.

 

One day, he spotted a priest walking along the road and stopped to give him a ride. Continuing on and approaching the town, the driver spots a lawyer walking along the side of the road.

 

Automatically, he veered his truck towards the lawyer, but suddenly remembered who his passenger was. He swerved back to the center, but he heard a "thump" and in the rear view mirror, and sees a lawyer rolling across the field.

 

He turned to the priest and said, "Father, I'm sure that I missed that lawyer."

 

You certainly did my son, but that's OK, I got him with the door."

[lance]

Heheheh. I like that, Swoop.

[auggybendoggy]

hahahahahahahhaaaa