Hitman December 21, 2003 Share Hitman Member December 21, 2003 I was referring to auggy's quote, he was saying that Sauron should've sent his entire force to Minas Tirith instead of just that smaller amount. I was saying that he didn't because if he had they would've all been slain by the army of the dead. I'm not talking about the assault on the black gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy December 21, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member December 21, 2003 (edited) then aragon was a fool to not go to mordor with this army to make certain the hobbits task was completed! He may be a fool but he was honoring his word to the dead army by releasing them. silly man I mean Aragon's a fool for not taking them to mordor instead of Minus T to ensure the destruction of the ring. Instead he took the dead army to minus T. to win tha battle when the war could be won in mordor. Bad mistake if your playing chess....if you can kill the king DO IT! Aug Edited December 21, 2003 by auggybendoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDO December 21, 2003 Share Guest PDO Guests December 21, 2003 Auggy... seriously watch that movie again, after reading your posts, it looks like you didn't even pay attention to half of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman December 21, 2003 Share Hitman Member December 21, 2003 then aragon was a fool to not go to mordor with this army to make certain the hobbits task was completed! He may be a fool but he was honoring his word to the dead army by releasing them. silly man I mean Aragon's a fool for not taking them to mordor instead of Minus T to ensure the destruction of the ring. Instead he took the dead army to minus T. to win tha battle when the war could be won in mordor. Bad mistake if your playing chess....if you can kill the king DO IT! Aug I see what you mean, I guess they were just following the books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDO December 21, 2003 Share Guest PDO Guests December 21, 2003 I thought that it was thier duty to defend Minas Tirith, and that was the only thing Aragon could order them to do... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman December 21, 2003 Share Hitman Member December 21, 2003 I thought that it was thier duty to defend Minas Tirith, and that was the only thing Aragon could order them to do... ? Oh yeah, perhaps you are right there... I don't exactly remember. Either way he told them that once they fulfilled their duty he would consider their honor restored and release them of their service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the.rev December 21, 2003 Share Guest the.rev Guests December 21, 2003 auggy will never let it go... =\ auggy = established NOOBIE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugs December 21, 2003 Share TheBugs Member December 21, 2003 auggie, stop arguing ur not going to win it was a VERY good movie. I suggest u go watch it again to answer some of those really wierd questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy December 21, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member December 21, 2003 my friends, my feinds I am not the only one who finds these inconsistencies annoying. If you look on the web you will find a few who find more than what I have found. They read the books and they're more harsh than I am. At least I have not read them and I have stated before (on another topic) that the books may resolve this (but if they did I wish PJ would have put them in the movie). It's sort of like star wars with anakin catching up to amadala in age. Lets just face it he aged and she didnt. LAME I know they say she did but we all know LUCAS jacked that one up. Well I don't remember them saying you have to defent mt. I'll bet if Gandalf was asked where should he go with the Army of the dead Gandalf would say OHHH YEA go to mordor. The others still came to defend which is what Gandalf was counting on. So it is not as though they didn't send the help hoped. Face it guys, unstable and inconsistent. and pulling out this dead army is no stephen king resolution. I have to say I think Weaveworld would make a better series for fantasy type of movies. I give it a C no matter what 6 year old may say; no matter what 13 year old; no matter what 30 or 60 year old. I see the main legion fighter get whooped by a girl and I think...."aaaahhhahahahahahahaha what a punk" I'll say it again...give sauron the ring and he'll get beat down again! Aug OUT! P.S. your right about one thing; some people don't care about stories that are inconsistent or don't leave much creativity to the resolutions (ala matrix) they just love classics. and I'm taking The bugs advice...I will drop this like a bad habbit. I actually did but then I saw ROTK and thought what is so good about it. Too many flaws and too many endings and hella too long! OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugs December 21, 2003 Share TheBugs Member December 21, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman December 21, 2003 Share Hitman Member December 21, 2003 Nooooo! I want to argue! L L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckleslove December 21, 2003 Share chuckleslove Member December 21, 2003 I thought that it was thier duty to defend Minas Tirith, and that was the only thing Aragon could order them to do... ? thats exactly what it was. In the days of old the men of the mountains made an oath to the king of Gondor to protect it in dire times of need and to come when he called. When the king called they did not show up so he cursed them until they fulfilled their oath. Now once again Gondor was under siege so the new king called to the men of the mountain(now the undead army) to come and aid in the defense. After they helped with the defense they had fulfilled their oath and Aragorn had to release them in order to keep his word. If he did not release them, then he would be no better than they were when the originally betrayed the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckleslove December 21, 2003 Share chuckleslove Member December 21, 2003 auggy - gandalf would not have said to take the army of the undead to mordor. That was not their purpose. As I explained in my last post you can read it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy December 22, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member December 22, 2003 thats a bit better but it still doesnt explain how they forgot about it. It's like no one knew but Elrod (elron whatever it is). Seems Gandalf or Aragon should have known this. And if someone knew about it that sword should have been reforged long ago in case the time came. All in all it seems a bit lame (movie wise) to drop a bomb like that. It's like the most important weapon for those parts is forgotten by all but the elvin king. But at least I'm not left thinking they could have attacked mordor. chuckeslove, I think that would have been better to show in the movie than how golum turned evil. We already know his story. I think if they would have shown how the dead army was and the story surrounding them it would have helped. Although I still think they're lame. A ghost army is a bit too far fetched for me. Then again I hate fantasy movies. Though these are much much better than Excalibur or conan. However Monty Pythons Holy Grail is still better Long live the death bunny. Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL December 22, 2003 Share dwEEziL Member December 22, 2003 (edited) Let Auggy be, he will never agree with us until he reads the books and loses himself in them like we all have. And I would like to give a standing ovation to Peter Jackson. Anyone who can go from "Meet the Feebles" to this has performed a miracle. Edited December 22, 2003 by dwEEziL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDO December 22, 2003 Share Guest PDO Guests December 22, 2003 I give it a C no matter what 6 year old may say; no matter what 13 year old; no matter what 30 or 60 year old.I see the main legion fighter get whooped by a girl and I think...."aaaahhhahahahahahahaha what a punk" This is another reason to read the books auggy.. it was clearly explained in the books that he got worked because of the sword that Merry (or maybe Pippin ? :x) used had some sort of attritubte to it... I THINK it was a sword that he originally used, or somethign along those lines, and that caused him to fall to his knees, then all that was needed for someone that wasn't a man to do something to him that would kill a normal person.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckleslove December 22, 2003 Share chuckleslove Member December 22, 2003 thats a bit better but it still doesnt explain how they forgot about it. It's like no one knew but Elrod (elron whatever it is).Seems Gandalf or Aragon should have known this. And if someone knew about it that sword should have been reforged long ago in case the time came. All in all it seems a bit lame (movie wise) to drop a bomb like that. It's like the most important weapon for those parts is forgotten by all but the elvin king. But at least I'm not left thinking they could have attacked mordor. chuckeslove, I think that would have been better to show in the movie than how golum turned evil. We already know his story. I think if they would have shown how the dead army was and the story surrounding them it would have helped. Although I still think they're lame. A ghost army is a bit too far fetched for me. Then again I hate fantasy movies. Though these are much much better than Excalibur or conan. However Monty Pythons Holy Grail is still better Long live the death bunny. Auggy In the books the sword was reforged and given to Aragorn when the fellowship initially set out from Rivendale. The 3rd movie follows the books much better than the first 2 books imo and if you read the book you will see that, basically that is how the army of the dead came up more or less except that Aragorn knew all along that he would take that path through the mountain. Do yourself a favor and read the books. I found that after seeing the movies there were certain aspects of the books I could then even appreciate more than the times I read them before the movies came out. Believe me I hate reading but reading the LotR books is one of the few exceptions to my hatred of reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeabos December 22, 2003 Share Zeabos Member December 22, 2003 (edited) First Sauron did not get beaten easily He killed dozens of warriors, and the only way he lost was because the ring was cut from his finger as he was about to gloat about his victory and pick up the king and kill him. He could have smashed him easily with his mace but he didnt. The Witch King and leader of the nine did NOT get killed like a wuss unless you were watching a different movie. He kicked the CRAP out of the girl and then picked her up by her neck and said "you cant kill me no man can kill me" He assumed that he couldnt be killed by this guy because no man can kill him and he didnt know it was a girl. Its like in CS, if you have godlike mode, but for some reason this one guy can kill you and you dont know he can. So your going to go for the knife so you can gloat the next round. Instead he shoots you in the face with an awp and you die, then in spectator mode your like "WTHECK I HAD GODLIKE!". Sauron WANTS THE RING not because he is drawn to it, but because 80% of himself is IN THE RING. In making it he poured his heart soul and blood into it. When he is wearing the ring he can assume his true form and kick donkey. When he doesnt ahve the ring all he can do is take a hazy weak form and give orders. The DEAD ARMY would NOT have attacked mordor, they did the job that was asked of them and Aragorn let them free. He didnt plan to go into the tunnel because he didnt have Narsil remade which proved he was the true heir to the throne of gondor. They told the story of the dead army in perfect clarity, you obviously were too preoccupied listening to your friend to try and point out flaws to catch this. The sword NARSIL IS REFORGED IN THE BOOKS, however, if you watch the extended edition of the first movie you will see Elrond asking Aragorn to have him reforge the sword and assume his kingship. But he refuses beccause he doesnt want to be king. If sauron gets the ring again, he is going to not gloat this time and instead walk up and kill everything. This time however, there will be no elves(who are far more powerful than men if you have read the Silmarillion) to stop his armies. Edited December 22, 2003 by Zeabos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rackish December 22, 2003 Author Share rackish Member December 22, 2003 The Witch King and leader of the nine did NOT get killed like a wuss unless you were watching a different movie. He kicked the CRAP out of the girl and then picked her up by her neck and said "you cant kill me no man can kill me" He assumed that he couldnt be killed by this guy because no man can kill him and he didnt know it was a girl. Its like in CS, if you have godlike mode, but for some reason this one guy can kill you and you dont know he can. So your going to go for the knife so you can gloat the next round. Instead he shoots you in the face with an awp and you die, then in spectator mode your like "WTHECK I HAD GODLIKE!". Oh man I love that, you really can compare cs to anything in the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy December 22, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member December 22, 2003 (edited) FINALLY someone who uses a CS analogy to set my ways straight. Thank you Rack! I was laughing soooo hard when I read that AWSOME! Now concerening my freind, I saw it alone. No friend, just me. You may be right. I don't recall them explaining in the movie the only thing these guys can do is defend. I remember the explanation that they will follow the king of gondor and aragon is that. So he gives him the sword to prove it to them so that they will help him. I dont recall him saying "they will defend Minus T because they are sworn to it but are awaiting the king of gondor to lead them". Perhaps they did. Heak with all the thees and thous I start to get a bit weary of the smack. Now concerning him not getting worked. Theres no way in HADES your gonna tell me that the ranger or legolas can kill so easily and lose to a girl and a hobbit. YOU know dang well they would have killed her in about .003 seconds with the hobbit falling at .5 seconds due to his small hard to hit size. All in all they would last .5 seconds agains either legolas or aragon. Now the powerful witch king is either a punk or a idiot. I think he's a bit of both. My point is that it presents the bad guys to be a bit of a push over when they talk and look so dangerous. The same thing I feel is true of Sauron and the ring. If Gandalf is right then all this should never have happened. If Sauron is so unstoppable with the ring then why did he get whoooooped the first time. HE SHOULD HAVE WON. So I've been told (according to the book) it was a lucky stroke of the sword. Then the obvious response is...If it only takes a lucky stroke of a small sword to bring down the ultimate power then the ultimate power is not ultimate at all but is nothing more than a trash talking yellow tooth punk! It cannot be true that getting a hold of the ring spells doom since all it takes is a lucky stroke of the sword. Who knows it may happen again. I still am not convinced this part of the story makes sense. Seems (again i say it seems not it is) illogical. Perhaps Sauron is just not too intelligent. Is he as dumb in the book as they present him in the movies? Aug Edited December 22, 2003 by auggybendoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDO December 22, 2003 Share Guest PDO Guests December 22, 2003 Aug, here's another CS analogy for you. Let's take TFR|Xander. He's a top calibur player, and owns most anyone in a pub, however he can be killed by someone like you, who isn't as good as him. Does that mean that he's a wuss/punk/whatever? Or when a top team chokes in the playoffs in a sport, are they a punk team? There's no such thing as someone being 100% invincible in this world, so when Tolkein wrote these books, he figured why should someone be 100% invincible? Everyone has faults, his was arrogance, and he paid for it due to a "lucky stroke of the sword" while he gloated. Zeabos explained the Witchking part already. It seems like you're arguing about how good the movie is 1) because you sem to want to argue and 2 ) to be different and not conform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman December 22, 2003 Share Hitman Member December 22, 2003 I've been wondering, and perhaps you can answer me Zeabos... He kicked the CRAP out of the girl and then picked her up by her neck and said "you cant kill me no man can kill me" He assumed that he couldnt be killed by this guy because no man can kill him and he didnt know it was a girl. Is the fact that she is a girl the reason she was able to kill him? Or was that simply a play on words and really anybody in her position could've killed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PDO December 22, 2003 Share Guest PDO Guests December 22, 2003 I think I can answer your question Hitman... I think it was a bit of both. I THINK that a man could've killed her in that position too, due to some attribute (which I really wish I could remember...) of the knife that Merry used on him in the back, I THINK it made him a human. But it might've just been because she was a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vain December 22, 2003 Share Vain Member December 22, 2003 There would be no lucky stroke of the sword if he got the ring back... he wouldn't be that stupid twice. So why dont you stop flaming a great movie\book and find something better to do. Also I think the movies are actually better the the books (in LoTR that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar December 22, 2003 Share Crowbar Member December 22, 2003 I gotta take auggy's side a little on this one. I haven't read the books, so I don't know about all these inconsistences... BUT I do know that I didn't think the movie was nearly the "instant classic" or "greatest movie of all time" that most people make it out to be. I liked it, but didn't love it. I thought it was WAY too long, mainly in the last 40 minutes. The saving feature in the movie was the elf and the dwarf's hilarious banter. Other than that, I don't recall much dialouge that stood out to me as great. Really just a lot of sweet battles, not much else. I would have been content to see nothing of Frodo (I found him annoying the entire series) from beginning to when he reached the fire of Mt. Doom, and instead just watch the action surrounding the 3-man army. On a side note, I was a huge Star Wars fan, until Episode 1 came out and shattered all respect I had for anything SW. My friends here tell me that LotR is the best trilogy ever made, I still maintain the Star Wars IV-VI and Indiana Jones kicked it's arse. Haven't seen the latter two Matrix movies, don't really want to either, didn't like the first one all that much. What happened to real action? At the preview for RotK they showed a stuntman saying how he does all this work, and piracy is going to put him out of business. No, Hollywood is going to put their own stuntmen out of business, by using all these computer special effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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