bang for ya buck

[Slaphappy]

So currently I've got a 9600 (not XT, not SE, just 6900), 512 ram (some middle of the road ram I don't remeber what it is) and a athlon XP 1800 (1.5) but it's OC to 1.7

 

I've got a decent mobo Epox somthing Nforce 2 chipset. I'd like to be able to run games better like cod and Need for speed etc. Cs and dod run fine. So what do I upgrade? Get another stick of ram go for a better processer (like a bartron) or drop in a 9600 XT?

 

I know they all need to be upgraded but my funds are running really low right now and can only afford to upgrade one.

 

so watta ya say?

[[Mmmm]Homer]

If you can sell your processor or video card to someone for a used price I'd upgrade one of those. Your RAM is ok, probably not holding your back. If you do get a Barton CPU then you could get a second stick of RAM (unless you have 2 x 256mb now) to take advantage of dual channel DDR (at least 2 memory slots must be filled).

[Playaa]

uh...your pc is better than mine in every department but video (I have 9700 Pro) and I can run CoD and most new games perfectly fine...

so either go for the video...or just accept that my pc pwns j00!!1

[Slaphappy]

ya 9700 pro will spank the ever live'n shiznizzel out of a 9600

 

just wondering but as far as vid cards go is the 9600XT (at around 150 to 160) better than a 9800 pro for 250 to 260... is the 9800 pro gonna be worth the extra 100 bucks?

 

edit* I have one stick of 512 and its some no name brand i think

Edited January 23, 2004 by Slaphappy

[dwEEziL]

9800 Pro is better than 9600 IMO. Don't have the benchmarks to prove it right now but I am sure Bird or Homer can provide them.

[Birdman]

In my humble opinion I would get a 9600pro and overclock to 9600xt speeds.

 

Then get the best processor you can with the left over money you have.

 

I wouldnt be to concerned with dual channel ram as its mostly an advertising trick with the socket 7 platform.

Edited January 28, 2004 by Birdman

[Crowbar]

check out some of the other threads in here, there's one that links to a the review on Tomshardware.com about video cards. Definatly at least look through the benchmarks for the games you play. They test CoD, Enemy Territory (similar engine to CS), Unreal Tournament 2003, Warcraft III and many other popular games. This will give you an idea of how your card compares to the others. The 9600XT is the card I'll be getting soon, however, if I could afford it, I'd definatly get the 9800 Pro. There's about a 20fps difference in many games, sometimes greater.

 

The 9600 Pro and 9600XT have very little difference in most situations, UNTIL you crank up anti-aliasing and antisoptric filtering. Then the 500MHz core clock that the 9600XT is equipped with really pulls ahead of the 9600 Pro in the benchmarks. In fact, if I remember right, it even gets better fps than the 9700 Pro, I could be wrong though.

[Birdman]

no way that the 9700 is beat by the 9600xt. The 9600xt isnt even as fast as a 9500pro(the best value ati card in a long time). And you can oc a pro to run with a xt. Xt's arent that much faster and pro's. Now that youve brought up the 9700 you can get it for 200 bucks and they are as fast as a 9800 pro when slightly overclocked.

[[Mmmm]Homer]

9700 Pro ($210) is 25-30% faster than 9600 XT ($160) and is a great value IMHO.

 

If we're talking CPU ~$85 or another 512mb of RAM ~$75, then a video card is a big upgrade for this tight budget. I agree the video card would be great to do, see what you can sell.

 

Advertise here in Hardware, it might be a nice upgrade for a Geforce2 or sub-8500 user.

[Birdman]

http://www.ati.com/products/radeon9600/rad...ro/compare.html

 

 

Comparison of the different 9600's

[[Mmmm]Homer]

Review including about all flavors of ATi and nVidia cards.

[NOFX]

Hey man check this out. I just rebuilt my entire system. Ill just list the core items that will effect your gaming performance.

 

Previous:

AMD 1800+ OC@1.67

Asus a7n8x-deluxe

768 RAM

9500 PRO

 

Current:

P4 2.4c @ 3.2Ghz

Abit is7 865Pe

512 DDR

9500 PRO

 

If you want an increase in your frames per second, your going to have to go with a new video card. Your system now can push a high end card. the only difference (gaming wise) between my two systems is an average of 15fps increase in Desert Combat, but in CoD the only difference is the bottlenecking is not as bad under heavy action, although it still drops some, but not as much. Most bang for you buck is a video card fo shizzle. If you get a new P4 getup, its gonna push your 9600 just as good as the 1800+ did.

Edited January 23, 2004 by NOFX

[All Kill3r]

wait till 9800pro is in your price range. nuf said.

[Slaphappy]

ya after reviewing a little help from my friends, It would seem to be that the best thing would be to save up for a 9800/9700

[Crowbar]

yeah, sorry, I was thinking the 9500 Pro, not the 9700 Pro. Stock speeds, the 9600XT does finally take the 9600 line past the 9500 Pro. At least according to Tom's benchmarks.

[Crowbar]

Here is a comparison of the 9600XT vs the new NVidia FX5700 Ultra.

 

Verdict, if you play OpenGL games, such as Homeworld 2 and Jedi Academy, get the 5700 Ultra. It's no doubt cheaper than the Radeon.

 

If you play Direct X games, such as Halo, Morrowind, BF1942, and most other games out there now, get the 9600XT.

 

The review looks at a lot of games, give it a quick read.

[Birdman]

"yeah, sorry, I was thinking the 9500 Pro, not the 9700 Pro. Stock speeds, the 9600XT does finally take the 9600 line past the 9500 Pro. At least according to Tom's benchmarks. "

 

Toms been smoking crack?

 

 

The 9600XT is the same speed as the 9500 pro

 

Sometimes its maybe faster by 5 fps, sometimes slower by the same amount.

 

Most time they are so close that it's within the margin of error.

 

9500pro owners should not be fraid of anyone packing a 9600xt.

[Birdman]

Then again maybe toms wasnt smoking de crack.

 

Seems their numbers are within the same range.

 

Anyone that has come to the conclusion that the 9600xt is faster than a 9500pro is wrong.

 

Sad too that the 9600xt isnt faster than the 9500pro cause the 9500pro was 200 bucks about a year ago and thats the price the 9600xt debuted at.

 

Looks like this generation of cards from ATI and Nvidia didnt really beat the old midrange 9500pro at all.

 

Cant believe that the 5700 and 9600xt are getting good reviews with that taken into consideration.

 

Sure they are both cheaper than 200 bucks now. But when they first hit the street the price didnt really help bring any new performance to the table.

I was one of the peeps hoping the 5700U and 9600XT would be faster than a 9700Pro. Guess not.

[[Mmmm]Homer]

Birdman,

 

I appreciate your opinion, but badmouthing Tom's every chance isn't gonna win me over on any of your opinions. In fact it makes you seem biased.

 

I'm haven't invested myself personally in any of the Tom's controverseys, actually I mostly ignore it after I read about it initially. After Tom had his "airing out" of his feelings in an opinion column calling a couple of other site op's basically hacks and second stringers, well, Tom's Hardware stopped being linked on Shacknews and more pointedly - HardOCP - among others.

 

Take a look beyond all of it, these other sites have an axe to grind with Tom now and you are acting as one of their minions. Rise above it. I'm sure Tom's Hardware isn't a big conspiracy to disseminate false benchmarks. They may screw up, they may find screw ups, and others screw up. Doodoo occurs.

[Birdman]

True true.

I am biased when it comes THG. More so than when it comes to AMD, ATI, or

my fav company of all time 3dFX

 

THG did have a direct link to something I took a part in though, which is kind why I don’t visit their site often. Having talked to a couple editors at THG in person may sway my opinion in different direction than others, but that doesn’t mean they are wrong or that I am right. I know of 3 THG guys in particular that I wouldn’t be able to read reviews from and still be able to hold their statement to be completely true. Two of them I had the opportunity to spend about 3-4 hours with one weekend.

 

Lil' info from a fellow gamer, that attended the same event I did, who was trying to get some info from the sponsers at the event so he could post on the website he represents.

 

http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=243

(too bad AMD was made out to be a bad guy because of an overpowering THG. Hard to believe that an AMD fan site would post such a matter, but it goes to show some people that you could consider biased are not, even if I would say that I am.)

 

Statement from ABIT about some troubles that arose from an event I attended in KY.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDk4LDE=

 

 

If you care to read the above then this may be worth a read too.

"THG Backpedaling on Lawsuit?"

http://www.hardocp.com/newsarchives.html?n...CAgLDIwMDMsLA==

 

So pretty much what happened was that THG was acting like a bunch of fascist and they thought that they could shape an experience for around 1000 people and have complete control over each and every person out of the 1000. They lost control at a point and were upset that some kid would try to cover what they claimed to be their event; an event thats sole purpose was to allow people to have fun playing games while media outlets from all around covered the news. Most people were never affected by what went on behind closed doors by i was left with a sour taste in my mouth.

 

Although the happy people at lanwar had this nice little note to add.

 

"Recently there have been some rumors, posts and stories about restricted media coverage that are untrue. As always, the more media coverage the better. MillionManLan 2 was visited by WHAS 11 TV, WHAS 840 Radio, THG, Sudhian & AMDMB.

To set the record straight, THG is not financially linked to Lanwar/MML in any way other than the time/effort/articles & tons of banner ads that THG went out of their way to help promote our favorite growing lanparty. This kind of coverage is unprecedented for lanparties in the US and we are grateful for their efforts.

 

Remember Lanwar/MillionManLan is and has always been about fun. Lets all remember to focus on the fun now that we have passed the 1000 gamer mark. It appalls us to see people attacked for going out of their way to give back to the LAN gaming community. Anyone wishing to discuss this further please feel free to email us at burden@lanwar.com. - Troy & Dawn Schwartz (Burden & BBabe)

"

Funny how both AMDMB.com and THG directly talk about a problem, but the people that actually threw the event said nothing at all went on. This is because the LAnwar i attended was almost completly run by THG and the normal lanwar staff were taking orders.

 

I didnt post all this to argue with you about THG homer, but instead to maybe let you see some of the things Ive seen THG do first hand. Its hard to visit a site for a nice happy review of a video card or processor after seeing what could be considered as their exposed dark underbelly.

 

That’s not to say any of the things I witnessed or anything above is actually true, but some would have to believe.

 

Long live the computer enthusiast.

Edited January 28, 2004 by Birdman

[Birdman]

This all took place well after what tom himself had to say about his private hate for a couple people in the business.

 

What i think you were maybe thinking about.

 

 

Sorry to have to bring up ugly crap like all that ^^^ onto a nice forum like this but sometimes a story needs to be told.

Edited January 28, 2004 by Birdman

[[Mmmm]Homer]

Well, they're Germans so they are supposed to be fascists.

 

 

[Birdman]

hehe

that could explain something.

[Crowbar]

regardless of the stories, I don't see how that makes their benchmarks bad, especially when balanced against other sites, such as Sudhian and AnandTech. Sure, Tom's done some crappy reviews (the "most complete speaker review ever" that consisted of 3 brands) but I've seen nothing to disprove the incredibly in-depth coverage on their graphics card reviews.

[Birdman]

Well if they cant treat you correctly face to face then how can you logically expect them to conduct valid benchmarks in a place(the internet) where lies run rampant.