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Nice answer. But why would he create the world in 6/7 days, if he could create it 30 seconds?

 

Your probably answer 'Maybe he wanted to enjoy creating the world and wanted the feeling to last'.

 

But for every question I ask, there will always be an answer, which brings about the beauty of religion: there are always answers. Maybe this is because God actually does exist, or maybe its because the discription of Gods nature means that he can do anything as he pleases, so there will always be an answer. Maybe I need to move to the religous debate forum.

 

At the moment, I'm not religious or athiest, but bored. Why should I ask myself questions about the existance of God when there is always an answer? Why should I doubt the existance of God when there is also no proof of that he doesn't exist?

 

I'm not trying to stir up a debate, I'm just confused, and as there are no clear answers I find myself trapped in the middle  :bang:

 

Yet some of my religous friends, that I truely admire, tell me to have faith. For me, faith is defined as not questioning Gods decisions, but to let him get on with the the job. As I try to keep faith though, I just seem to fall back into my old views that faith is also part of the beauty of religion: If you can't find the answers, just keep faith.

Now here I would say that faith is just a beautiful way for people the Church the prevent people from doubting Gods abilities when there are no logical reasons.

 

My final question, is if God creates us and gives a path to follow in life, then why does he create some of us to not believe in him? I first asked myself a question like this when Muslim extremists believed that Allah had given them a goal in life, to prevent western domination. If Allah wanted to prevent western domination, why wouldn't he intervene himself? Or is this just a useless excuse for Terrorism?

 

I'v waffled on a bit too much, but if anyone has any guidance, then I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks, bb

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(edited)

I'd like to preface my response with three points:

 

1. I'm an agnostic.

2. I have no agenda to convert anyone to agnosticism, any religion, or away from any religion. I just think people should believe what they believe for a reason.

3. Sorry this post is so long! :)

 

Nice answer. But why would he create the world in 6/7 days, if he could create it 30 seconds?

 

Your probably answer 'Maybe he wanted to enjoy creating the world and wanted the feeling to last'.

Nah, it's actually "that's what it says in the Bible. Does it really matter, though? No matter what the amount of time it took was, someone could always ask "why did it take THAT amount of time? My question to that person is 'why does it matter?' ".

 

 

But for every question I ask, there will always be an answer, which brings about the beauty of religion: there are always answers.

Yes, but are the answers right?

 

At the moment, I'm not religious or athiest, but bored. Why should I ask myself questions about the existance of God when there is always an answer? Why should I doubt the existance of God when there is also no proof of that he doesn't exist?

Hmm... I'm trying not to answer all of your questions with questions, but it's appropriate here too. Why doubt the existence of unicorns and leprachauns when there is also no proof that they don't exist? What you're referring to there is negative proof -- basically a "I can say what I want, prove me wrong". It should be the other way around -- "I made this claim, now it's up to me to prove it, not have you disprove it".

 

 

I'm not trying to stir up a debate, I'm just confused, and as there are no clear answers I find myself trapped in the middle  :bang:

I'm confused -- you said this maybe should be in a debate forum, but you're not trying to stir up a debate?

 

 

Yet some of my religous friends, that I truely admire, tell me to have faith. For me, faith is defined as not questioning Gods decisions, but to let him get on with the the job. As I try to keep faith though, I just seem to fall back into my old views that faith is also part of the beauty of religion: If you can't find the answers, just keep faith.

Agreed.

 

 

Now here I would say that faith is just a beautiful way for people the Church the prevent people from doubting Gods abilities when there are no logical reasons.

Agreed again.

 

 

My final question, is if God creates us and gives a path to follow in life, then why does he create some of us to not believe in him?

That's a very good question. An omniscient creator-god will know beforehand who will and won't believe in him. If I were to take a stab at it, it'd be to say "we all hope that if an omnibenevolent god exists, he a) wouldn't want to create robots that just think in one way, and B) uses contrast to create meaning to existence (e.g. what is light without darkness? what is evil without good? etc)".

Edited by Unclean
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I personally have a hard time in beleiving something when fact contradicts it, for example, we have scientific proof of how worlds are created, and evidence that ours was created in the same way the theories and proof show.

 

There was no mention of Dinosaurs in religious writings, yet we have proof.

 

There is no proof of anything written in the bible, only faith keeps the belief alive.

 

The other thing to remember, is that the book was written by man,not a God, back in a very different time. A time when there was little knowledge of anything scientific, and the world was full of superstition and paranoia.

 

And it is briliiant really, i mean, the church ruled the world back then, and they did it without the use of force in alot of cases, just by fear of God they could maintain.

 

And look at the Greeks, all of the gods they worship, and we all blow that off as a fairy tail. And what about Allah? We dont acknowledge him as a god, but to them, he is.

 

It is my belief that God gives people the comfort of knowing they have somewhere to go when they die, and it helps them live.We as humans, cannot accept the fact that we only exist for a short time,we feel immortal. I also think that it keeps people in line, if it was a known fact that there is no God, the world would be chaos, people would act like animals without the fear of going to hell.

 

There was a time when I had faith, a long time ago, but then as I got older, and began to question, I prayed for guidance, and strength, and never recieved anything that showed me there is a God. I cant help it, my mind simply works logically, I require proof and fact, and for things to make sense, it's just the way i am.

 

I am in NO WAY knocking people for what they beleive in, in fact, even if it would be untrue, religion is a healthy practice. I do not try to force my views on others nor do I want people to think less of me for my opinion. At times, I actually wish I still had faith, but it isnt something you can force. So I guess you could say, I too have questions.

 

I really dont know what to think.

Edited by Clueless .gc
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Thanks for the post, clueless! I agree with some of what you said, but I have a few questions for you too.

 

1. we have scientific proof of how worlds were created? Are you referring to boson pair production (subatomic particles popping in and out of existence)? Or something else?

2. the church ruled without the use of force back "then"? When is "then"? Much of the beginnings of Christianity involved much violence -- the crusades, persecution of non-Christian religions, book burnings, etc.

3. you mentioned you have many questions, and don't know what to think. What are a few of your biggest questions?

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Well, first off, I was typing frantically and mis-lead you on the ruling without violence, actually, there has been more killing in the name of God than anything else. What I actually meant (but didnt properly say) was that it has been effective throughout history to maintain order, in good people, with the fear of God alone.

 

As far as the scientific proof of worlds being created, I cant give you technical info, due to the fact that I dont study it, nor have I retained info from what I have learned. I have just watched many shows on Discovery and saw the theories and heard the scientists talk, and I have always found it interesting to watch. The theory you spoke of, I have never heard, but I would watch that show too, lol. I guess I speak more along the lines of big bang, and theories along those same lines. I wish I had watched those programs with more thought on retention, because this could be a fun topic, but unfortunately, like many things in my head, the details trickled away.

 

I guess I have the same questions as a lot of people, whats out there? Is there a God? If so, why does he let things happen to children? Why doesnt he give people signs when their faith waivers and they ask for guidence?

 

I also refuse to believe that we are the only life in this huge universe, seems like a waste. But the religious people are taught that we are the only ones. And the other worlds out there, do they have Gods? Is he the same God?

 

As you can see, I REALLY dont know what to think.

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Everybody needs to watch the program on PBS called " The power of intention".

It is a great program that explains about creation and in a cool scientific way. It goes on to say that science is proving and has proved GOD is real. When people wrote the bible 1600-2000 years ago there were no dinsaurs. That was like 500000 years ago, and people were not reading and writing at that time.

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I keep typing, and deleting, I dont know what to say, and how to conclude the arguements. I guess there are no conclusions to be made, its just a case of belief.

 

What I have learned though, is that anyone can make up theories to answer the questions I ask. As long as the person answering the question has a little common sense, they can answer the question by using God's awe. Therefore, the answers will always be correct in some sense.

 

Yet, I still have some more thoughts

 

Your choice of religion is primarily based in what type of family you are brought up in. For example, if you are born into a Christian family, you will probably go to Church and follow Christian traditions. However, if the same person were to be born into a Hindu family, they would more than likely become a Hindu.

 

I have a strong Muslim friend, and when I asked him if he were to be reborn into a family believing in a different religion, would he still be a Muslim, or would he inherit the new religion. He said he would inherit the new religion.

 

I struggle to see how religion can be 'real' if it depends on what type of society you are born into.

 

My point above doesn't really have a solid meaning, but maybe someone can build on this for me. I'm still young and learning.

Also, can some religious people express their views on the issues being discussed in this topic? It may open up the arugement a little more.

Edited by *BiGBonES**
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Everybody needs to watch the program on PBS called " The power of intention".

It is a great program that explains about creation and in a cool scientific way.

D'oh! It doesn't come on until midnight on Tuesday for me. PBS.org will send me a reminder to watch it though, so I'll try to catch it when it comes on. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

Also, can some religious people express their views on the issues being discussed in this topic? It may open up the arugement a little more.

Yeah, we've all been agreeing FAR too much. :laugh:

 

Maybe to help clarify things a little, for all the people that have a ton of questions, start with one that you think is the most challenging. For me:

 

1. Given there are thousands of religions, how can one be sure which one is right? In other words, what gives some of the religious people here the thought that "ok, I found the right religion, no need to check out some of the others that I haven't researched yet"?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was stuck on the subject for a loooong time. To be quite honest I went to college and got a whole new perspective on this subject. I had a religion teacher and he was awesome. I also took, Biology and three semesters of geology.

 

Keep in mind many peoples argument with science is that they are only theories and cannot be recreated since we dont have 4.6 billion years, but also keep in mind these same theories Geologist use to get the oil so you can drive around all day are the same theories used to prove the earth is 4.6 Billion years old.

 

Religion really opened up my mind. The study of religions, the first types of religions, how the very first types of religions formed, the histories behind them and modern religions, I found to be very interesting. Its just that most religous people don't look that far into it. My religion teacher was also a southern bapitist preacher. He could also tell you everything you wanted to know about any other religion...Very smart and open minded man that tought us how to be the same.

 

The one thing I got most out of that class was, Religion is there to help people get through life. It was very helpful especially in primative times. Some people need it, some don't...

 

Think about it.....Relgion is more about the stories it has and the morals the stories teaches you, not the answer to everything....I think it teaches great morals, which some have rubbed off on me. Believe if you want, but there is no need to question every detail. (After all, the version the bible you are reading today, was translated in the 1600's, the time of shakesphere, under the rule of King James....Kinda explains why it sounds like a shakesphere play eh?) Im sure much was lost in the translation......

 

One more thing I picked up is that all modern religions basically teaches the same morals, but go about doing it different ways... Buddhism does it very very well..

I would highly recommend you do some research and further your knowlege into other religions.

Edited by NOFX
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Oh, I'd wholeheartedly agree that religion is a comfort for some, and some religious people can be very powerful, moving people.

 

I'm not entirely sure that you understood my question though. Your response "I would highly recommend you do some research and further your knowlege into other religions" doesn't seem to address my question. Simply put, I asked "when do you stop researching religions?" and you replied "you should research more religions." :yellowbiggrinsqr:

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I'm not religious, yet I read a lot of the bible. Its a good read. I don't believe certain parts of it, but the points that they are getting across are the points that I try to live my life by.

 

The answer to your question unclean, is hard to comment on. Really, you need to be asking a more religious person, as they have found the answers, where as me and you, I assume, are still looking.

 

A friend of mine said that it suddenly just clicked, that he could speak to Jesus, and thats when he knew that he had found God.

 

I guess that if we do not find the answers, we will always keep looking for them. Its human nature to be curious, and if we get bored of thinking about these topics on a certain day, we will inevitably continue the debate on another day (a debate in your own mind is what I am referring to here).

 

I'm at a stage where I don't believe in God, but I also don't believe in any other theory that science has presented. I'm stuck in the middle, so I try and put this subject to the back of my mind to avoid the frustration of not knowing where I come from.

 

Infact, everty time I think of this subject, I'm going to take a hit of CS, till the feeling passes away :D

 

As I said, we need some religious people in here to educate us a bit more about when they knew they had found the answers they were looking for.

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@NOFX - agreed, no sense in staying in the dark. That's why I'm seeing if there's a light! ;)

 

BigBones - ya, it'd be nice to hear a religious person's insight in this one. In the meantime, we could continue this way: it sounds like you think science and religion are at odds. Is this correct? If so, why?

 

Oh, and a parting thought -- you said that you get frustrated by not knowing our origin. Do you know everything else? Seriously... assuming that you don't know everything, why would not knowing something else bother you so much?

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As I said, we need some religious people in here to educate us a bit more about when they knew they had found the answers they were looking for.

 

wish I could help there...but honestly, I was raised by parents who believed in God and I never (truely) doubted. And when I did doubt slightly was during my rebelious teenage years...

For me, it's just that no other answer I have seen makes sense as much as this one and I honestly don't think I could ever NOT believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God....

 

you say that there are parts of the Bible you don't believe. I'm curious as to which parts those are.

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My first one is Noahs arc.

 

I dont believe someone could build a boat big enough to fit every specie of animal in the world on. And, is it even possible for one man to build a boat so big? How did he get the animals in the boat? did he talk to them, or did they just willingly hop on board

 

When I was younger I believed in it, because however illogical it seemed, I knew God was behind it.

 

But not that I dont believe in God, it idea just seems totally stupid.

 

Thats just one example, I'll have to study the Bible a bit more to discuss about other issues I have trouble not understanding, but that will do for now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

study away! bring the questions back. But dont expect imperfect humans to have perfect answers. We'll do our best. God willing, you'll have the answers you need to see the truth, which is the word of God(its in the BIBLE!)

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My first one is Noahs arc.

 

I dont believe someone could build a boat big enough to fit every specie of animal in the world on. And, is it even possible for one man to build a boat so big? How did he get the animals in the boat? did he talk to them, or did they just willingly hop on board

 

When I was younger I believed in it, because however illogical it seemed, I knew God was behind it.

 

But not that I dont believe in God, it idea just seems totally stupid.

 

Thats just one example, I'll have to study the Bible a bit more to discuss about other issues I have trouble not understanding, but that will do for now.

 

Noah took many, many years to build the ark. The dimensions of the ark are detailed in the Old Testament. The animals were drawn to the ark by God and willingly got on.

 

I'd like to respond on the original post by Big Bones but don't have the time at the moment.

Edited by dwEEziL
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My first one is Noahs arc.

 

I dont believe someone could build a boat big enough to fit every specie of animal in the world on. And, is it even possible for one man to build a boat so big? How did he get the animals in the boat? did he talk to them, or did they just willingly hop on board

 

When I was younger I believed in it, because however illogical it seemed, I knew God was behind it.

 

But not that I dont believe in God, it idea just seems totally stupid.

 

Thats just one example, I'll have to study the Bible a bit more to discuss about other issues I have trouble not understanding, but that will do for now.

 

you do realize that you pose a question to which there can be no answer right?

let me break down your statements and you might see the problem with it:

"I used to believe in Noah's Ark when I believed in God, but now that I don't believe in God I don't believe in Noah's Ark."

 

There is no real way to approach that. The entire idea behind Noah's Ark (actually the idea of building the boat and getting the animals on board) kinda hinges around the existence of God or not. If God doesn't exist then there is absolutely no way Noah could have done that...however, if God does exist then it's easy to assume that God would have helped move Noah (and the animals) towards his own goal.

So the real question is whether you view Noah's Ark as a reason to believe or not believe in God. Because if you let the idea of the Ark convince you God isn't real because Noah couldn't really do that (without God that is), then you just based your argument on your conclusion. Did that make sense at all?

Basically, if God exists then Noah could have built the Ark. If God doesn't exist then he couldn't. So you can't try to figure out if God exists by whether or not Noah built the Ark and put the animals on it.

sorry if that was confusing.

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I had not seen anyone comment on this since it is 100% untrue.

 

Seems quite arrogant of you to say that it is 100% untrue since there is no way possible for you to provide proof, which is of course why you listed none.

 

Feel free to list any proof that youre aware of, and keep in mind that this isnt the Poitical forums, so keep your posts respectful and informative please.

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Seems quite arrogant of you to say that it is 100% untrue since there is no way possible for you to provide proof, which is of course why you listed none.

 

Feel free to list any proof that youre aware of, and keep in mind that this isnt the Poitical forums, so keep your posts respectful and informative please.

 

Hehe - this is a free-for-all zone for the most part.

 

What proof would you like? The bible is regarded as a valid historical document in many areas. But hey - how about the fact that there is a land called Egypt. There we go - your statement is 100% incorrect now. Thanks. Let's not forget all the rulers listed out as well. Or the fact that no one disputes Jesus was a real person at the time - he is even mentioned in Josephus' and Tacitus' historical books from the same time frame. I could go on and on with all the truths laid out in the book but I am pretty sure that everyone can see that my statement was correct.

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Seems quite arrogant of you to say that it is 100% untrue since there is no way possible for you to provide proof, which is of course why you listed none.

 

It seems that someone took offense at my respose to the above comment. Was my "proof" response a bit arrogant? Sure - but it was nowhere near as arrogant as a statement that "there is no proof of anything in the bible".

 

So if anyone took offense - my apologies, but the original was quite offensive to me and needed a similar response.

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There is no proof of anything written in the bible, only faith keeps the belief alive.

I had not seen anyone comment on this since it is 100% untrue.

Who said that, anyway? I can't find the original quote.

 

Anyway, I'm with Soul on this one -- that's a pretty sloppy argument. Whoever said that, do you care to revise your argument to something that's a little more solid?

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