Late Night Players of FAIL!

[chick82]

Okay I'm sorry I know we have a server rule of you can't kick someone based on skill but I am seriously over playing at 2am with a bunch of people who A) Don't care about TEAMWORK. Don't want to listen to what anyone has to say. C) Have an attitude if you suggest anything D) Wonder why people like Me and tirtul and Valen don't want to votescramble when its 1200 to 200 because you know what no matter what happens the people from the other team still don't want to listen and don't want to learn. I would really like for it to be okay to kick people who I'm sorry for choice of words but Honestly just SUCK!. Okay they do, they don't want to listen they don't want to learn, they get butt hurt if you tell them anything and act like you think you are better than them when really all you want them to do is WORK AS A TEAM oh my HOW HARD IS THAT.

 

Its 3 a.m I just raged out of a game because our team dominates the first map, 2nd map we votescramble and OF course its Me, Ak and like 2 other kinda of regulars with 7 people who don't want to work together don't want to cover, and we get owned, up and down and all around that map. Then of course same thing 3rd map, finally on the 4th map after they went and almost made it to the saferoom, we couldn't even get past the smoker choke point. Seriously I'm done. From this point on, I am honestly going to vote kick anyone who doesn't want to work as a team if that means myself and 2 other regulars kick a whole team IDC. I work all day babysitting I don't come home to do the same thing over and over and over again because some people want to get all up in arms because you make suggestions and act like oh my you are hurting my fragile feelings of failureness when DUDE i wasn't even talking to you seriously....ITS A TEAM GAME AND THESE PEOPLE ARE SO FAR INTO THE CORNERS OF oh my WHAT WAS THAT OH SHOULD I HELP OH NEVER MIND WHATS THIS ON THE GROUND LIKE STFU AND GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Okay I'm done ranting I'm just furious. Anyone who wants to get onto me and session for being a bit of Harda** on people about things its because we want our team to have a shot not this crap of losing because people don't play as a team. I've had 3 people go off this week because of us and its like seriously 1) NO ONE IS TALKING DIRECTLY TO YOU THEY ARE TALKING TO THE TEAM SO GET OVER YOUR EGO AND BE A TEAM PLAYER! OR SHUT UP AND LEAD INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING, (WhICH me and session do lead so we CAN COMPLAIN) and 2) IF YOU DON"T LIKE WHAT IM SAYING THATS FINE BUT DON"T BE ALL TROLLING AN ATTITUDE ABOUT IT OR GET MAD WHEN WE VOTEKICK YOU!

[JackieChan]

/rage

 

(will post more when I'm on my computer)

 

Also, wheres letter B?

[samurai nightling]

lol... oh Chick. Well, I'm not even sure how to approach this. We want to be welcoming while also supporting a team based fun game. If we always kick people who don't work together as a team due to inexperience, either in the server or at l4d2 in general, then the likelihood of those players coming back is slim, and what if they could be a lot better in say a week or so?

 

Now I won't say kicking players based on skill doesn't happen often when admins aren't on (cuz im sure it does), but maybe we can start monitoring the players a bit more and kick some of the ones who just refuse to work together no matter what. It's kind of a thin line of when are you just trying to get rid of people who don't understand and get rid of people who refuse to actually work together.

 

I can't see a clear cut rule we can put in place, but I wanna see what Jackie has to say.

[JackieChan]

When votekicking occurs, there needs to be a valid reason to why a votekick is put into place. A completely unrelated scenario here is that in any game, people's votekick finger gets so dang itchy that they would votekick themselves if they're not careful. I bet more people have been votekicked in L4D than the amount of versus games played in general.

 

People take this game WAY too seriously, and there is good reason to. It's not like CS where one person going 1-23 isn't going to have a huge impact on the team since the guy owning faces with a 6:1 ratio (hacker) can more than make up for the baddie.

 

Take the same scenario in L4D. The guy who is killing special infected (zombie players for those who don't know) left and right cannot simply push, pull, and coach an entire team forward if those on his team either don't listen, don't understand English (yes, quite a few foreigners play on the server), simply don't care, or think they're too elite to listen, but are the first to die anyway. That one guy killing everything can not simply walk into mordorbring his team to victory because how this game works is that your team is only as good as your worst player. ONE person can drag the other 9 players down with him. If this one person is dragging their team down, I want to say, "Yes, go ahead and votekick him." The good players end up taking on the role of babysitter because the people who don't know how to play kill their entire team.

 

It's gotten to the point where there are so many regulars on the server where this doesn't pose any kind of problem at all, but at the same time, there are so many new players joining that don't know how the buy system works, or how the game works in general (we're talking about people who have like less than 100 or even 50 hours played), that it frustrates the regulars to no end.

 

There is a rule on the server which states: "Don't votekick people based on skill." To be honest, this begs the question: What defines skill to other players in regards to the player who doesn't "have skill"? Does this mean, "They are sticking with everyone in the group, but just aren't able to quite do everything properly", or "They simply do not know the map, how to shoot their gun, how to move in a straight line, etc., etc., etc."

 

I want to say that in the first example, people shouldn't be votekicked for that. They're trying, but just can't quite get to everyone's level. In the second example, yes, votekick away.

[chick82]

I read what both of you said AND here's my honest thing. There are people who do Honestly TRY who are brand new and make an honest effort they ask questions they communicate, BUT then there are people who just Ignore any help you try to offer don't help a teammate don't use their mics(hold on I don't mind this BUT) after a while finally SPEAK up and chew out the people who have been making suggestions and freak out. That's my issue.

[ValenAlvern]

Should add a new thing to the thing that pops up "Welcome to GC L4D2 Server" that thing, add "If you're new to 10v10 please be respectful of players trying to help you out." or something, or add it to the end of that "be respectful of your teammates, especially if you're new to 10v10 / L4D2."

 

I dislike when new players disregard what regulars or what people who know what they're doing. You know telling people to hurry up, or why are you being slow, or running ahead.

 

Also all of you are glad I aint like Chick, I see it like this in L4D2 or most FPS games. Timing = Skill, on Survivor it doesnt take skill to go pew pew pew, but on infected, if you dont do stuff at the right time the Survivors can just steamroll you. In other words, I'd be calling votekicks like crazy when admins arnt on. I only call votes when people break rules.

 

I will leave if I have to play babysitter for people who are new to the game, cant kill everything and teach people about the maps/server mods all day.

 

 

EDIT: Also, a way to tell whose what Rank so when new people join, to show that the people talking know what they're talking about. It could either be a vague number or the exact number, or the player level as to not show people who want their ranks private. I know you were working on displaying player levels in the names, but it didnt work out correctly.

Edited October 6, 2011 by ValenAlvern

[Cake]

Tough, tough... Usually when i play, i'm always babysitter. Whether I like it or not, I know no one else will ever help out. It's funny because Jason use to ask me why I let myself die with the slowest two players and I tell him, if i dont help them, who will? As you can see now, he's an amazing teammate and he stays in the back just as much as i do now

 

Sometimes you just cant help who joins the server, who listens and what not. For being a girl admin, I get a lot of crap because my voice is different.

 

Chick, it's okay to vent it can be very frustrating...

 

Jackie, her b became B ) =

[TheTokenBlackguy]

Tough, tough... Usually when i play, i'm always babysitter. Whether I like it or not, I know no one else will ever help out. It's funny because Jason use to ask me why I let myself die with the slowest two players and I tell him, if i dont help them, who will? As you can see now, he's an amazing teammate and he stays in the back just as much as i do now

 

Sometimes you just cant help who joins the server, who listens and what not. For being a girl admin, I get a lot of crap because my voice is different.

 

Chick, it's okay to vent it can be very frustrating...

 

Jackie, her b became B ) =

 

 

Define different 0o

[Cake]

I dont get respect from a few jerk players because I am a girl and of course "there are no such things as "girls" on the internet." A lot of times people think they can talk back to me or step all over me because for some people I may sound like a little boy. (Which is offensive to me, but I usually don't do anything about it because people are just immature.) I usually let my gameplay define who I am instead of talking too much. Since a lot of the players know me now, I have been more confident in using my mic more but i still type A LOT.

[crunchyorphan]

You should get a voice mod to make you sound like Michael Clarke Duncan, and people wouldn't mess with you.

[Cake]

LOL!!! that's funnaaaay.

[Tonto]

From the other side of things, might help to not throw insults around because you're losing. Not specifically you Chick, but there's some 'leaders' out there who will start the 'oh you guys suck', 'we have a team of noobs' comments just because an ambush wasn't done at a certain point. Remember that not everyone has played No Mercy 100 times before (seems a server fav) and knows the exact setup for each point.

 

Also when you find one at the back, it's not always because they don't know what they are doing and are hanging back. With the regulars it could also be a chain smoke setup or a good jockey, once at the back, always ganked. Lots of vocal negativity shuts up the whole team and kills anyone even trying to help. More time is spent on the mics with acusations fying across than teamwork being done.

 

Much different from someone who doesn't know the !heal command etc.

 

Also, later at night it is, more chance of none English speakers. Something you can't avoid unless you want to put an English test question they have to answer before logging in.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Tonto

[Tirtul]

I think that something that can annoy people is when there is that person in back who gets chain smoked or gets jockeyed but doesn't let anyone know... I understand that there are non English speakers that play especially during the late hours but most are able to put up some sort of "help" or "smoke" or "jock" type message and don't. I'm not saying that is in anyway justifies talking down to a person but it does cause some to assume that the person in back doesn't know what they are doing.

 

To agree with you though I also disagree with the talking down about your team... if you don't believe someone is very good it isn't very cool to publicly state it in voice chat or whatnot... in just talking down to them that isn't a way to either help them or allow them to learn.

[omnikz]

well you can do what i do.. just exit and go do. A) go to sleep. B.) go play another game. C) punch your comp to end all rage. heheh

Edited October 7, 2011 by omnikz

[chick82]

From the other side of things, might help to not throw insults around because you're losing. Not specifically you Chick, but there's some 'leaders' out there who will start the 'oh you guys suck', 'we have a team of noobs' comments just because an ambush wasn't done at a certain point. Remember that not everyone has played No Mercy 100 times before (seems a server fav) and knows the exact setup for each point.

 

Also when you find one at the back, it's not always because they don't know what they are doing and are hanging back. With the regulars it could also be a chain smoke setup or a good jockey, once at the back, always ganked. Lots of vocal negativity shuts up the whole team and kills anyone even trying to help. More time is spent on the mics with acusations fying across than teamwork being done.

 

Much different from someone who doesn't know the !heal command etc.

 

Also, later at night it is, more chance of none English speakers. Something you can't avoid unless you want to put an English test question they have to answer before logging in.

 

 

Yes Tonto I agree its not cool to call people names, I have once in a while lost it to the point I'm like really guys and go off a little bit about the lack of team support. My whole thing is yes there are people who get pulled back or stuck or chain smoked(please i've been on this a few times so I understand that) its more like when people don't cover, don't make an effort and then freak out about someone trying to help or make suggestions.

 

As far as the non-English there are a lot of people who aren't English speakers but you have people like Dean for example who doesn't know english really well but he is always communicate with the team even with something as simple as smoked or charged in back. You don't have to be perfect at English but being able to communicate in some fashion is helpful, even if you just can type Help.

 

I just want people to be open to learning or asking for help versus assuming because you are new we think you suck or don't want you on our team that is not the case at all. Its more like if you openly ask questions, ask how the buy menu works, ask questions to know better versus not saying a word ever or only to complain about the people who are trying to make suggestions and set up good attacks.

 

Jackie & Valen put it best you are only as good as your worst/lest experienced player. This is truly a game where one person who takes no suggest who takes no advice who isn't willing to learn can bring a team of 9 other people down. And Valen on the infected, it is easy to pew pew and have someone be able to come back and save you time and time again and maybe bounce back from the lack of experience or attention but on infected, 4 people attacking 10 while the other 6 are doing there own thing and not wanting to take suggestions really you can make up for that, it is just to hard on infected to pick up the slack of people who aren't willing to learn or work as a team.

[boiler]

This thread makes this game sound like the most newb-UNfriendly game I've seen in a long time, and has honestly made me feel like I shouldn't bother ever picking it up. I kind of had the same feeling towards the end of my CS playing days, where if I didn't play for several hours per night I would never be any good. (seriously Jackie? noob until you've put in 50-100 hours? who has that kind of time?)

 

I understand that the particular frustrations mentioned above are for the "uncooperative" noob, but it still sounds like simply being a willing-to-learn noob would annoy the crap out of an entire team.

[Madvillain]

BUMP!

 

Cake is a GIRL?!

[Madvillain]

A willing to learn noob is fine Boiler, you should jump on in sometime. I think everyone is just complaining about people who are hard headed, dont have audio or a mic and appear to have no common sense... you CS:S skills and ability to critically think would put you ahead of the curve

[chick82]

This thread makes this game sound like the most newb-UNfriendly game I've seen in a long time, and has honestly made me feel like I shouldn't bother ever picking it up. I kind of had the same feeling towards the end of my CS playing days, where if I didn't play for several hours per night I would never be any good. (seriously Jackie? noob until you've put in 50-100 hours? who has that kind of time?)

 

I understand that the particular frustrations mentioned above are for the "uncooperative" noob, but it still sounds like simply being a willing-to-learn noob would annoy the crap out of an entire team.

 

THIS IS MY POINT! People who over read into and take what is said the wrong way then make the regulars feel bad. No this isn't a noob friendly game BUT not in the way you think. You assume 50-100 hours is a lot lets do some math on that so you understand the game.

 

1) If you are new it takes about an hour/hour an half to go through 1 campaign, which gives you an ideal of where to go, what to do, gives you an ideal. So lets say there are 8 campaigns that's about 14-15 hours doing 1 run through, which really you should do at least 1 run through before you play ANY versus, not just our server ANY server, because you need to know where you are going.

 

2) Then after you have done 1 run through each campaign, you go try REGULAR versus, one because 10v10 versus is not a good place to start it really isn't, one there are ALOT of mods, and two there is a buy system. So you go try out 4v4, assuming no one kicks you for low hours (Which is a true thing because it happens more than you can imagine) you finally start getting a few games under your belt lets say you do a versus in each campaign and that takes 2 hours each. so 8 camps gives you 16 hours.

 

So now total you have 30 hours in which you have only done 1 run through and 1 versus run through. You are just starting to get familiar with the game that has a 4v4 structure with no mods, and you join a 10v10 with a lot of mods and a buy system. Okay this will be a little frustrating for regulars BUT! There are 2 kinda of people that this new person will be.

 

1) Those who are excited to play, a little weak in some places because they are new, but they ask questions, they communicate, they are trying very hard, they ask about the buy system, they ask what does !sp mean, they actually are trying to learn the game and giving a sincere effort.

 

2) THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT THIS POST IS ABOUT! These players range from 30 hours to 400 hours players. Some of them are new and some have a fair amount of hours, but they don't ask any questions, or may ask a little about the buy or sp system but don't do anything with it, they start shopping because either they've never played this map or they just do their own thing, when teammates ask them "How many points do you need to heal" and they never answer never answer and die because the other team keeps spitting on them and we cant' get them up or another suckie thing is when you Send them points and they don't even use them. And then when you are on infected you and try and explain to them a good choke point or set up this way and about 10mins into the map you get this attitude "Oh all these micro managers are way to bossy, and stop telling people what to do, don't tell me how to play, I play how I want" BLAH BLAH BLAH. Looks its fine and all to play how you want but THIS IS A TEAM! VERSUS! Okay So i'm sorry if you don't know the definition of Team then you need to leave, or if you aren't willing to lead but you'll be Damned if anyone else does because 10 people should just get on the server and do their own thing.

 

Yes lets do that. Lets all get on the server for one night, and NO ONE say anything, NO LEAD, no one help anyone who asks a question about the buy system, no one send points to anyone. REBEL!!!!!!!! AGAINST THE REGULARS! BECAUSE GOD FORBID Anyone gives you advice.

 

There has to be some sort of leadership and on a 10v10 you aren't going to get just 1 like you do in a 4v4 unless you have Dryfire, or Tech, or Parox on your team because(One they hardly shut up and Two because they just have that gamer really load voice). It's just the nature of the beast. If you can't handle the fact that there are 10 people playing and there will be at least 2 or 3 people telling a team what they should do, then don't play on it, because that's how its going to be now and forever.

 

You know back in the day I would kick anyone who annoyed me, aggravated me, who didn't have a mic, who didn't speak english, who was a little kid, who I didn't like, who didn't play as well, BUT now I am WAY more tolerante because of the 10v10 BUT tolereance can only run so deep.

[samurai nightling]

Well boiler to be honest, 10v10 servers, especially ours, are not friendly to a person who just started playing and has about 2-10 hours of playtime. Simply put, if you are new to L4D2, you need to play the campaigns and some regular 4v4 vs before you come hopping into a 10v10 server which the game was never designed to be played as in the first place, but has morphed into as the most fun type of server imo.

 

If people come in, with not even full knowledge of the basics of how infected work, how the physics of the game work, or knowledge of spots on maps, they will fail at being any kind of help to their team in this server. 10v10 is hectic, nonstop craziness, and thats as simple as i can put it. You're constantly moving, shooting, buying, and trying to help your teammates not die, because a well placed attack by the infected on a singled out person will kill that person in under 10 seconds.

 

Our server may not be as "heavily" modified as some other 10v10 severs, but it is still VERY heavily modified compared to the original 4v4 defaults. We're talking a complete buy system not even in the game normally, infected with different health stats than normal, CS:S guns that aren't even supposed to be in the game, not to mention the 6 extra people on each side. There are probably 20 plugins/addons that Jackie has put on the server that a vanilla 4v4 doesn't have. Before new people come hopping in here, its best to have some experience in what is standard to be able to see and use what is different.

 

That's my thoughts. A new person is completely capable of coming in, being an asset, and having fun as long as they are willing to listen to those of us trying to help them. 80% of the new players recently don't do that, hence Chicks frustration.

 

Also i hate you Chick, because i posted mine 1 minute after yours and was typing it while you posted lol.

Edited October 7, 2011 by samurai nightling

[Tonto]

From the other side of things, might help to not throw insults around because you're losing. Not specifically you Chick, but there's some 'leaders' out there who will start the 'oh you guys suck', 'we have a team of noobs' comments just because an ambush wasn't done at a certain point. Remember that not everyone has played No Mercy 100 times before (seems a server fav) and knows the exact setup for each point.

 

Also when you find one at the back, it's not always because they don't know what they are doing and are hanging back. With the regulars it could also be a chain smoke setup or a good jockey, once at the back, always ganked. Lots of vocal negativity shuts up the whole team and kills anyone even trying to help. More time is spent on the mics with acusations fying across than teamwork being done.

 

Much different from someone who doesn't know the !heal command etc.

 

Also, later at night it is, more chance of none English speakers. Something you can't avoid unless you want to put an English test question they have to answer before logging in.

 

 

Yes Tonto I agree its not cool to call people names, I have once in a while lost it to the point I'm like really guys and go off a little bit about the lack of team support. My whole thing is yes there are people who get pulled back or stuck or chain smoked(please i've been on this a few times so I understand that) its more like when people don't cover, don't make an effort and then freak out about someone trying to help or make suggestions.

 

As far as the non-English there are a lot of people who aren't English speakers but you have people like Dean for example who doesn't know english really well but he is always communicate with the team even with something as simple as smoked or charged in back. You don't have to be perfect at English but being able to communicate in some fashion is helpful, even if you just can type Help.

 

I just want people to be open to learning or asking for help versus assuming because you are new we think you suck or don't want you on our team that is not the case at all. Its more like if you openly ask questions, ask how the buy menu works, ask questions to know better versus not saying a word ever or only to complain about the people who are trying to make suggestions and set up good attacks.

 

Jackie & Valen put it best you are only as good as your worst/lest experienced player. This is truly a game where one person who takes no suggest who takes no advice who isn't willing to learn can bring a team of 9 other people down. And Valen on the infected, it is easy to pew pew and have someone be able to come back and save you time and time again and maybe bounce back from the lack of experience or attention but on infected, 4 people attacking 10 while the other 6 are doing there own thing and not wanting to take suggestions really you can make up for that, it is just to hard on infected to pick up the slack of people who aren't willing to learn or work as a team.

 

Oh yeah, I understand, just mentioning a little unwinding in general might help the team atmosphere, and that's for people raging without a real reason unlike your examples. And certainly if someone is freaking out just because they are getting helpful suggestions pointed at them, that's just as bad as negativity. I've gone with the team on leaving people who just won't respond. And on the inf side, yep I'm usually calling for support/teamwork in the back when we've snagged a couple (and sighing when it doesn't come). As I mentioned, my comments were not aimed at you, more to some of the other rage I've seen.

 

Just an example I've been hit with personally on the verbal stuff. Teams down on points so I guess stress is going up. While our group is running into a building someone in the middle shuts the door (god knows why) and three of us basically smack face first into it just as the spits hits. So you're stunned for a sec because you didn't expect the door to be shut, you try and get out of the spit, but basically with the combination of both you go down. Then you get the yells on the mic 'why are you noobs in the spit, you're just feeding points....'. Situation is bad enough without the incriminations... and trying to say what happened while the same guy is still raging on the mic while also trying to have the team works things out.... doesn't work. I guess you can call this my personal rant, the needless negativity.

 

For the English, I was thinking more of they won't be getting the detailed ambush plans, more so than not typing 'help', 'smoker' etc. But yeah, who knows if it's lack of English or folks trying to squeeze in one more SI spawn before setting up and waiting at the choke point. Everyone does it, there's been more than a few times where I have see the person calling for the ambush setup, themselves not setup at the ambush point

 

Edit- Wow, all posting within a min and a quad post from Chick hehe

Edited October 7, 2011 by Tonto

[samurai nightling]

Dangit Chick. Your quad post of the same thing made me delete boilers last post. I was trying to delete 3 of your 4 as duplicates and accidentally deleted boilers post. So if anyone knows how to bring back his last post please do, sorry boiler.

[Tonto]

A willing to learn noob is fine Boiler, you should jump on in sometime. I think everyone is just complaining about people who are hard headed, dont have audio or a mic and appear to have no common sense... you CS:S skills and ability to critically think would put you ahead of the curve

 

Techinically speaking, not quite. I used to interchange the two also.

 

"II. Defining 'Noob'

 

Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. Noobs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. ... "

[chick82]

Dangit Chick. Your quad post of the same thing made me delete boilers last post. I was trying to delete 3 of your 4 as duplicates and accidentally deleted boilers post. So if anyone knows how to bring back his last post please do, sorry boiler.

 

 

LOL idk why it duplicated I'm sorry but all of Boilers post was in the quote section of my last post. And its all there. That's all the help I can offer. LOL I be posting Multi times to just be like yay i wrote that LOL JK JK...Sorry about that.

[JackieChan]

I think you guys convinced Boiler not to get this game...