File Sharers Beware

[Hitman]

I am in aggreance with you DJ, however you did come up with some very interesting points that I didn't even think of. Good show I've always hated buying albums for just the one or two songs on it that are good, which is probably why my CD collection is very small. I like my KaZaA Lite and my iPod full of free music, but even if I had to pay by the month or by the download I'd probably do it.

[rkp]

I think allowing people to download music is fine. I have no problem with it and the music stars make enough money as it is. People will still buy the cds of there favorite band and pay to go see concerts.. ya know.. it just doesnt make sense to blow the whole scene up about downloading music illegaly. Napster probably started it all i think, but there is just no need to jump on the scene like the gov is doing and crack down tons of innocent people.

[ConGregation]

<notices DJ's gauntlet on the floor. Sighs and picks it up>

 

I am NOT a music affaciendo and I do NOT know the industry at all. About this topic I know very little. But it sure seems like you are dancing around the real issue with a bunch of "side" facts.

 

The issue is punishing the violation of copyrights. Whether is smart or STOOPID, its the legality that is the point.

 

Again, I have no opinion about RIAA, this law, or Napster, etc. But there are laws about this stuff. If someone wants to break those laws they should expect to face some "civil justice".

[[Mmmm]Homer]

[Hitman]

[TeK]

I <3 u DJ (In a totally non homo way )

[DJ Premier]

<notices DJ's gauntlet on the floor. Sighs and picks it up>

 

I am NOT a music affaciendo and I do NOT know the industry at all. About this topic I know very little. But it sure seems like you are dancing around the real issue with a bunch of "side" facts.

 

The issue is punishing the violation of copyrights. Whether is smart or STOOPID, its the legality that is the point.

 

Again, I have no opinion about RIAA, this law, or Napster, etc. But there are laws about this stuff. If someone wants to break those laws they should expect to face some "civil justice".

The government should be consistent with their messages. When Donald Rumsfeld replied the following when asked what they should do about the looting that is going on in Iraq: He said the Iraqi's are finally getting a taste of freedom and they are not used to the feeling of doing what they want. With this newfound freedom, there will be a period of lawlessness which will eventually quiet down.

 

Analogously, the growth of mp3 as the preferred form of audio and the newfound freedom we found with it will create a period of lawlessness that will eventually quiet down. Putting together guidelines and some laws that corral the users into the "proper" way of behaving is a way of reducing this lawlessness while keeping the true spirit of the technology alive.

 

Laws like the ones being proposed is simply trying to use a hydrogen bomb to destroy a few tanks in the middle of a city.

 

I'm not saying that trying to get the piraters is wrong. But there is a good and bad way of going about doing it. And I'm saying again, the RIAA and any supporter of the RIAA's methods are stuck in the past and will eventually become the past if they don't smarten up and see the bigger picture for what it is.

 

I, as a consumer, am tired of being ripped off. The music industry is going to change. It's going to change DRASTICALLY. The old methods and concepts no longer apply. The current method of doing business concentrates on a small percentage of artists because artists are ultimately tied to a 12 track "album" which makes the consumer pick a small percentage to purchase. In the future, I'd like to see artists be judged by each song. This type of granular competition will allow a lot of the lesser known artists to get noticed and heard.

 

Rev, you say the issue is punishing the violation of copyrights and the legal issues around it. But it is times like this that will drive whether America will be a follower or a leader in tackling the changes that are coming. Also, you haven't answered one of my questions. Do you support practically violating our civil rights in order to stop piracy?

[DJ Premier]

Oh my...I just thought of something.

 

I think the RIAA is one of the few, if not the only one, that actually takes the opposite path that their customers want them to take. I dunno about you, but if I ran ANY business where I disregarded the customer and completely ignored their recommendations, my business would experience a quick and painful demise.

[DJ Premier]

Btw, I don't support piracy. But I think right now is a time where the producer and the consumer are in re-negotiations in order to figure out a plan that is beneficial to both sides. The problem is, the producer doesn't want to listen to the consumer, but would rather flex its muscles and squash the lowly consumer. Do you blame the consumer for behaving the way they do?

[Fatty]

I'm better off downloading it.

That's supporting and engaging in piracy.

 

Granted, there may be a much, much, much, much, much, much better way, as you have so thoroughly pointed out. But, until that happens, if it ever does, isn't d/l music, even one song, supporting or engaging in piracy? It has to be. But, humans have a unique way of justifying lots of things in order to bend or break laws. (My company is so huge, they'll never miss this....nobody is using this, it's been sitting here for ages...it's outrageous that they charge so much for this, taking this won't do anything to their profits...the gov will never know I made this money....etc)

 

I have a CD full of mp3's that mini burned for me. I love the CD, so I can't say that I'm clean....but I know that I am enjoying a product that those groups put work into, and I got for free (although lots of the songs I at one time had on LP!)

 

Dunno... I, like Rev, and not big into this music thing, so you won't get any sort of debate from me. I like DJ's idea of singles (although, didn't anyone ever have a 45 with one or two songs on it?!?!? wait, I'm showing my age....)

 

Good day.

[ConGregation]

Ok, Im going to take one thing you said and hang my hat on it.

 

I dont support piracy

 

Opinions about RIAA and laws to curb piracy is certainly proper discussion and something I will NOT venture into. Obviously you know much more about it than I do. But you have to admit, since you do not support piracy, that this thing was outta hand. Something had to be done, of course people who are used to getting stuff for nothing aren't going to like it.

[ConGregation]

Sorry, mom called while I was writing so I leap-frogged Fat's post.

 

I, like Fat, could not call myself completely clean. This thing is so pervasive that is why I think something needs to be done. But again, solutions are always tricky things.

[ConGregation]

Do you support practically violating our civil rights in order to stop piracy?

 

Im sorry, DJ, but that is one area I think is blown way out of proportion. If the government wants to monitor file sharing programs to find pirates, I feel theyare totally justified. There is a fine line here where I draw it though. I dont want them searching my hard drive. That is personal and a violation, IMO. But once I send "data" over the World Wide Web, I feel its fair game. This idea that the internet is somehow linked to my civil liberties is a stretch, imo.

 

<get ready for a real stupid example>

 

Banks set up security cameras in case a burgler attempts to rob the bank. But everyone who goes into the bank is being "taped". The only person that would be concerned about those cameras are the ones who are doing something illegal. ITs a public venue. The banks have the right for security purposes to record all movement. I feel the same way about the internet and illegal activity.

[DJ Premier]

The would-be law is stating that if copyrighted material is even made available for downloading such that a download is made, it is considered a federal offense.

 

So, I buy a CD, i decide I want to put it in my mp3 player that I left at work. I rip the song off of the CD I bought, upload it to my website where I can download it from work to put in my mp3 player. Someone happens to download it.

 

Or

 

I want to send you some photos over the internet. I make one of my folders on my hard drive "sharable" so you can just download the pics you want. But I happen to have a couple of mp3s in there due to a drag and drop error i made 8 months ago. You take the pictures as well as the mp3 because you dragged and dropped the entire folder.

 

Because I put it out on the internet for download, I just committed a federal criminal offense. That's pretty absurd. It's like sending in the FBI because I left my a Britney Spears CD on my lounge chair at the beach as I went to the water to cool off and made the CD available to copy to the public. What crime have I really committed?

 

I think that the law is going to far, especially if I can get fined thousands of dollars and even be put into prison.

 

btw, Fatty, those 45's with 1 or 2 songs on it were singles. They have 1 song on the 1st side that is advertised. The 2nd side is either a different version of the 1st song or a separate song that isn't as popular. They were typically used by radio stations but some were made available to the public.

Edited July 20, 2003 by DJ Premier

[Lunk]

btw, Fatty, those 45's with 1 or 2 songs on it were singles.  They have 1 song on the 1st side that is advertised.  The 2nd side is either a different version of the 1st song or a separate song that isn't as popular.  They were typically used by radio stations but some were made available to the public.

More then "some" were made available for the public.

 

I remember buying 45's all the time when I was growing up. They then soon faded away when the cassette tape came out.

[DJ Premier]

yeah, i have few thousand of them in a crate somewhere. They are still available if you look for them. I remember when a clear square "45" came out for a few singles. These things were floppy like a piece of plastic paper but played on any record player. Those were kinda cool cuz you could just fold them in your pocket and carry them around with you.

[bullet-401]

So what if your not the giving end of this whole file sharing thing but on the reciving?

[Fatty]

So, I buy a CD, i decide I want to put it in my mp3 player that I left at work.  I rip the song off of the CD I bought, upload it to my website where I can download it from work to put in my mp3 player.  Someone happens to download it.

 

Or

 

I want to send you some photos over the internet.  I make one of my folders on my hard drive "sharable" so you can just download the pics you want.  But I happen to have a couple of mp3s in there due to a drag and drop error i made 8 months ago.  You take the pictures as well as the mp3 because you dragged and dropped the entire folder.

Even in your examples, I don't see anything radical. It puts the responsibility into the hands of the owner...your hands.

 

It comes down to two sides: responsibility vs. negligence.

 

Example:

 

Leaving a gun lying around the house isn’t a crime. However, if I leave my gun around and a kid grabs it and uses it to kill someone, I am responsible by negligence. I do the responsible thing and secure the weapons to make sure nobody “accidentally� kills anyone.

 

There have to be severities of this responsibility, however. I don’t buckle a child in my car, I am making him available for tragedy, and thus I am punished. However, if he dies in a car accident, I am charged with negligent vehicular homicide (sadly, this happened to a kindergartener on his way to my school this past year).

 

So, in your examples, it would be the responsibility of you, the owner, to make sure accidents don’t happen. You’d make sure that ftp sites are secure for your own use, or that your drive is secure so as to not accidentally leak. Whatever the case, even if it can be called an accident or coincidental, the owner of the “material� is liable.

 

As for your “I left it lying somewhere and someone picked it up and distributed it� example, you would not be liable because someone stole it from you and then took deliberate steps to distribute. Putting that CD on the Internet is not comparable to leaving it on your beach chair (unless your beach chair was large and also held a CD copier with blank cds laying around). In the same way, I wouldn’t be responsible if someone knowingly came into my house, took a gun, and used it to rob the bank up the street.

 

I can't believe that any law would be passed that would put anyone in a lose-lose situation. For any law in our land, there are simple steps to take to make sure you don't break any of them. I refuse to believe, or even entertain, that our nation sets us up to be victims without a chance. I believe that, in the movements above (and I only know of such movements by your posts), entertainer's products are being rightly protected.

 

There may be better ways than the current, but the fact that there need to be better ways is only due to the gross amount of dishonesty and thievery in our society. Your examples above are centered on some innocent person doing what they might normally do. However, the other majority of people who u/l and d/l music (vast vast vast) that are doing it illegally cannot be ignored.

 

So yes, I have to show my ID to the clerk because of all the frauds in the world.

 

Yes, I have to be forced to wear my seatbelt because too many people can't make this choice on their own.

 

Yes, I submit my fingerprints to be a camp counselor or teacher because who can you trust anymore?

 

And yes, you have to take steps to make sure nobody can access your music files on the web or on your harddrive because of the people that are dishonest about it.

[DJ Premier]

I don't think its fair to relate negligent vehicular homicide and murder by pistol comparable even remotely to sharing a song. But I do get the gist of your point.

 

But, the example of leaving your CD on the beach chair and leaving that song on your website is exactly the same. They are both public places.

 

Do you know how easy it is to copy a CD? It takes 15 seconds per song if you have the actual media, while it takes a few minutes to do it via internet. So, I walk to your beach chair, grab the CD, put it into my CD/Mp3 player, voila, I have your album in less than a minute. Now....in the case of the law, you, the owner of the CD who left your CD on your beach chair can possibly get fined $250,000 and be sent to prison by the FBI (Federal offense) for 5 years. Same goes for the person who stole the song from your CD. In fact, the person who wants that song on your CD should just took STEAL your entire CD because then its just petty larceny and not a federal offense that holds charges equal to manslaughter.

 

But I do agree that it should be and is today illegal to copy copyrighted material. This new law is an attempt, at the blessing of the RIAA, to kill any support for electronic distribution of media. We already have laws. If they aren't doing enough, create a new law that is equal to the crime committed and not make it out to something that is equal to accidentally killing a person.

 

You have to understand, the RIAA has a LOT to lose if electronic distribution of media becomes the wave of the future (I stated why before...they won't be able to rip us off anymore). There's a lot of money to be lost by them, so the more SEVERE the law is for taking a song from someone, the better it is for them, regardless of whether that law is a fair one or not. They have a vested interest in making certain that music is not distributed electronically. Why do you think they shot down napster in the first place, even when ppl were willing to pay?

Edited July 20, 2003 by DJ Premier

[Guest zerodamage]

What I can tell you is that I haven't purchased a new album that had 65% or better good songs on it since Bush's first cd. I haven't purchased a cd since Limp Bizkit's last. The majority of Music today sucks and the idea there are 15 of those crappy songs on this little flat disk that is going to cost me 18 bucks is idiotic. I will d/l the few songs I want and if a pay service that is actually good comes out, I will gladly pay a little each month for it.

 

For the first time, I am in agreement with DJ. I do however still know that it is AGAINST the law to pirate music. Which is why I only d/l Television shows that I missed.

[++SexyTyme++]

so... the guy who actually rips the cd for mp3s and put them online is supposed to be the pirate?

[Xterminator]

I wonder why no republicans are backing this up.

[Watchtower]

I already have 100+ GB worth.. I guess I can stop now

****** Disclaimer. What is stated above is not to be taken seriously. File sharing is evil and is the enemy of all things righteous.

[Watchtower]

Oh did I meantion there are too many "middlemen" in the entertainment industry? No-talent, fat pigs who live and get rish off of the artists and fans who's hearts and souls(most of the time) are going into the making of the whole scene.. That, not the file swapping is what makes me most sick.