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Do you believe religion and God is the sole source/gauge of morality? I'm basically asking if you think your religion is the basis of morality, good/bad. And without your specific religion, we don't know what's right and wrong.. Obviously it's what You base your own morality on, but do you believe other belief systems promote the same ideals?

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Guest PDO
Guest PDO

Not sure I understand your question fully, but if you're saying all morale comes from God/Religion then you're dead wrong..

 

I know lots of people with no religion that are some of the nicest people I know. Morales come from Parents mostly, who (usually) know that life is easier if you're nicer to everyone, and everyone is just as nice back.

 

..Yah.

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I do believe that morality comes from God, but I believe God instills it in us. However, quite often what we refer to as "morality" is no more than common sense.

 

morality is definatly a deep and confusing topic.

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PDO, that is one way to look at it, but I don't think they have to believe in a God for God to have instilled in them a sence of morality. I'm reading CS Lewis' Mere Christianity right now and there is a whole chapter devoted to this. So, I'm probably biased not only by my religious beliefs but because I just read this chapter.

 

So, my opinion is basically that your conscience is at the root of morality. You esentially know right from wrong, and I don't think that "your parents" is a good answer(not to pick you PDO, but you hear this a lot). I will admit that you pick up good and bad habits from your parents, but I think the human race had that conscience instilled in them from a higher power.

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I believe it varies from person to person. Im sure Ned Flanders morality is effected by his religious beliefs. However, I dont believe this is the same for everyone. I never really was very religous and at about 16 I totally stopped going to church. When I was little I used to go to church every sunday with my grandparents. When I was 16 I bleached my hair and showed up at their house to go on christmas sunday. My grandmother wouldnt let me go to church with them because of my hair. Never been back. I believe I still have pretty good morals though

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Guest PDO
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So, my opinion is basically that your conscience is at the root of morality.  You esentially know right from wrong, and I don't think that "your parents" is a good answer(not to pick you PDO, but you hear this a lot).  I will admit that you pick up good and bad habits from your parents, but I think the human race had that conscience instilled in them from a higher power.

Well, you bring up a good point about the conscience plays a big role in this, however how do you believe your conscience develops? It's been proven that until you're about 7, you can't tell right from wrong.. so that leaves a few possibilities, 1) parents 2) environment 3) it's thre the whole time and just has to "blossom" or something like that.

 

IMO Parents play a big role in helping develop that, but environment can help to.

 

Think of it as if you had different parents, would you be the same person with the same morales?

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It's been proven that until you're about 7, you can't tell right from wrong..

bs.gif (sorry I just love using that image)

 

I totally disagree and want to see scientific evidence of this claim.

I can tell you for a FACT that I know a not yet 2 year old child who knows right from wrong.

I have used him as example before on this forum.

I have watched him walk over to a table and go after playing cards on the table he was previously told not to touch multiple times. The specific instance of this I remember, he was told 1 day earlier to not touch the cards. Later that day the cards were put away and then the next day they were brought out again and used by his father and myself then left on the table while we watched a movie.

I watched him walk up to the table and reach for the cards, while watching me the whole time (I was looking out of the corner of my eye at him, he was staring at me while reaching for the cards). The instant I turned my head he stopped moving. When I turned my head back he went for the cards again. I turned my head again and he stopped moving. I shook my head and said nothing else and he stopped trying to grab the cards. (funny thing is that he listens to me more than he listens to his parents. I haven't had to follow through with a punishment once; and I'm part of the family so I would punish him if I had to, not once have I punished him but if I look at him and shake my head or say "Micheal, no" in a calm voice, he will listen and stop what he was doing...he has no reason to fear me but he obeys me).

There are other examples with this child. He clearly knows when he is doing something he's not supposed to. So please, show me some scientific evidence to back the claim that everything I've seen from him is wrong.

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now on a different part of your post.

I said above that morality is a complicated thing and it definatly is.

I do believe that our parents have a big role in our moral development. But I also believe that God instills general "right" and "wrong" in human beings...but I believe humans have free will and with that free will comes the ability to cloud over God's little nudges...

Another thing is that I think alot of what we consider "morality" doesn't hafta do with God's definition of morality. It's the same way I view sin. Some people look at everything the Bible says you shouldn't do as a "sin". I agree with Paul when he was talking about things being "permissable but not beneficial"...as in, sure you COULD do this...but are you going to be helping yourself out by doing that? or flat out, "what's the point in that?"

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Guest PDO
Guest PDO

(That's an awesome Smilie :o)

 

Anyway, I know I've read it before, and I've also heard something of it in a movie at school, so I'll go onto the look for it. It very well could've been something a bit lesser, my memory isn't alkways great, but it had something to do with right/wrong and the age of 7.

 

Also, sounds like a really smart kid for his age, I've seen kids older than 3 still have very small vocabulary, although I've also seen some kids at 1 3/4 talk very fluently, although she was in a family of 6 so ya.

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what about the morality in question concerening committed lame relationships.

 

Mel white a lame theologian is openly lame and states that the homosexuality that is condemned is because it is lustful not committed. So he says he loves his dude in the same way a man loves his wife.

 

The real question is...is it moral? What is the basis for morality?

 

some say God said don't be lame therfore it's immoral.

 

and some say God made me this way so how can I turn from it.

 

tuff questions to answer

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what about the morality in question concerening committed lame relationships.

 

Mel white a lame theologian is openly lame and states that the homosexuality that is condemned is because it is lustful not committed.  So he says he loves his dude in the same way a man loves his wife. 

 

The real question is...is it moral?  What is the basis for morality?

 

some say God said don't be lame therfore it's immoral. 

 

and some say God made me this way so how can I turn from it.

 

tuff questions to answer

God said it was sinnful so it is.

 

 

God didnt make us sinfuil, we did, so if we in fact are born either lame or straight(which is a bogus idea to me <_< ) then its not his fault....

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Do you believe religion and God is the sole source/gauge of morality?  I'm basically asking if you think your religion is the basis of morality, good/bad. And without your specific religion, we don't know what's right and wrong.. Obviously it's what You base your own morality on, but do you believe other belief systems promote the same ideals?

Most definitely does not root itself solely in religion. But religious folks will tend to disagree with me. So this is a loaded question. Too difficult to answer globally. Morality must come from within. If you need religion to guide you, then that is what is needed for you. It doesn't mean it is needed for others.

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Dweez prolly stated it best, but even the most pagan society has some general sense of right and wrong, guess that brings up the subject of propensity towards evil lol

Sure and the fact that what is "right" in one society can be "wrong" in another. And some societies are based more in nobility than morality... Alot has to do with evil tho I'll give you that.. Everyones take on evil is different though too..

Man I'm all over the place tonight. I make no sense :blink:

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I say I try to evaluate a comment and add my perspective. You put yours out there, I put mine. I think about what is said. So what exactly was your point by saying..

"Dweez prolly stated it best, but even the most pagan society has some general sense of right and wrong, guess that brings up the subject of propensity towards evil lol"

 

It's not about argument, it's about clarification.

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Dweez prolly stated it best, but even the most pagan society has some general sense of right and wrong, guess that brings up the subject of propensity towards evil lol

Sure and the fact that what is "right" in one society can be "wrong" in another. And some societies are based more in nobility than morality... Alot has to do with evil tho I'll give you that.. Everyones take on evil is different though too..

Man I'm all over the place tonight. I make no sense :blink:

You are making plenty of sense.

 

It's analogous to diets and recipes. Different ppl eat different things. The one who eats grasshoppers as a delicacy is disgusted at the one who eats the hot dog and vice versa.

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but you base that on something you don't know to be fact.

if there isn't one religion then different "diets" for each person is fine...but how do you know that there isn't just one right answer? Just because you don't feel there is? Tell me you see the flaw in that.

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fact and fiction are absolute.

What is right and wrong is determined by the society we live in.

 

The words right and wrong can easily be substitued in for fact and fiction, which many people tend to do. But when DJ was saying right and wrong I dont beleive he was referring to fact/fiction.

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