Watchtower March 26, 2004 Share Watchtower Member March 26, 2004 With all this deep talking going on, and really only two or three viepoints being shared in these forums, this allows us to look one step deeper.. "Hi Maria!. I don´t know on what school are you lined in. Im a Lotus Sutra votary (Nichiren, Soka Gakkai). We touched on this subject several times in our han, and, as the essence of Buddhism, we have the freedom to do from ourselves the way we like. But don´t worry!. If you love somebody, set him free. And free up yourself too!. Illusion kept on the permanence of things is the main source of suffering. And love does not escape from this fact. On the other hand, there´s no marriage ceremony or ritual in our Buddhist school. Beloved ones decides at every moment on their whole lives to choice one to each other, is a dynamic choice. That´s the way that a lover´s couple (i´d rather talk about couples more than wives and husbands) decides to continue together or not. Fidelity, as per Crhistian or Catholic point of view, is a bond to keep us together by means of fear of God. In Buddhism, we have to truly keep fidelity to ourselves without any intermediate (such as God, Allah, or any sacred entity of the kind), and, then, share our love with another person. In fact, if you really loves one to each other, let it flow. We are all object of the cause and effect law!. And fidelity is just one effect if you decided to print it cause! Well...words apart, I´d like to keep in contact with you. Take account of my condition of Lotus Sutra votary and Roman Crhistian Apostholic fellower. I could say that I´m a Buddhist Roman Apostholic!. Hope this words clears just a little your doubt on this subject! Luigi Trastorno (from Buenos Aires, Argentina) PD: Please, apologize for my English, Spanish is my mother tongue!" Reply in a thread on a buddhist messageboard.. Another quote.. ""Aware of the suffering created by fanaticism and intolerance, we are determined not to be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theology or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist teachings are guiding means to help us to learn to look deeply and to develop our understanding and compassion. They are not doctrines to fight, kill or die for." -- The First Mindfulness Training by Thich Nhat Hanh as quoted in "No Death, No Fear - Comforting Wisdom For Life" by Thich Nhat Hanh" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane March 27, 2004 Share jane Member March 27, 2004 you seem to be pushing towards this Buddhist wolrdview more and more WT. Why is that? Or am I mistaken? Ive, as you posted in the religions thread you believe in a god, why do you seem to be moving towards a worldview that makes man a god? I may be inferring/ assuming to much here, so let me know if I've overstepped my bounds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Premier March 27, 2004 Share DJ Premier Member March 27, 2004 I'm glad you are learning about other religions Watch. It really makes me believe you are here to enlighten yourself and make the choice that is right for you. The person who responded in that quote is something I believe in as well. "Aware of the suffering created by fanaticism and intolerance, we are determined not to be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theology or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist teachings are guiding means to help us to learn to look deeply and to develop our understanding and compassion. They are not doctrines to fight, kill or die for." That is a great quote. In the end, I also believe that we long to find guiding principles in our lives. Be it Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc...religion guides us to do what we believe is what we would like our principles to be based on. Not everyone needs religion but it is there to guide us if we need. I believe what it means to someone is solely for that person and not to be intruded onto another. It is deeply personal since interpretation is personal. Interpreters of religion may guide your interpretations but in the end, you will believe the story in only the way you want it to be told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Premier March 27, 2004 Share DJ Premier Member March 27, 2004 Jane, the Buddhist view does not believe that man is god. Buddhism is about enlightenment and freedom from suffering. There are 4 major sects of Buddhism, all of which value life but 1 that places all life as equal and in equilibrium with each other. It is a deeply personal religion. "Buddhism teaches that humans are trapped in a repetitive cycle of birth, life, death and rebirth. One's goal is to escape from this cycle and reach Nirvana. The mind experiences complete freedom, liberation and non-attachment. Suffering ends because desire and craving -- the causes of suffering -- are no more." This is probably the biggest difference between Christianity and Buddhism. In Christianity, it is believed that you have but one life. And when that one life ends, you are either sent to heaven or hell for eternity. This decision is made by God judged on the actions of the one being judged throughout their lifetime. God does not free the buddhist. The buddhist frees him or her self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Premier March 27, 2004 Share DJ Premier Member March 27, 2004 If you want to know more, go to http://www.religioustolerance.com Here are some more Buddhist thoughts: The Three Buddhist Trainings or Practices: Sila: Virtue, good conduct, morality. This is based on two fundamental principles: - The principle of equality: that all living entities are equal - The principle of reciprocity: to do onto others as you would wish them do onto you. It is found in all major religions. Samadhi: Developing one's mind is the path to wisdom which in turn leads to personal freedom. Mental development also strengthens and controls our mind; this helps us maintain good conduct. Prajna: Discernment, insight, wisdom, enlightenment. This is the real heart of Buddhism. Wisdom will emerge if your mind is pure and calm. Once again, Buddhism is personal. I hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX March 27, 2004 Share NOFX Member March 27, 2004 nice read WT, found something that explains what buddhism is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX March 27, 2004 Share NOFX Member March 27, 2004 oh an nice link also DJ http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower March 28, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member March 28, 2004 you seem to be pushing towards this Buddhist wolrdview more and more WT. Why is that? Or am I mistaken? Ive, as you posted in the religions thread you believe in a god, why do you seem to be moving towards a worldview that makes man a god? I may be inferring/ assuming to much here, so let me know if I've overstepped my bounds.... I've said a few chants, I've said a few prayers. I don't know if anyone is listening, for all I know some alien 400 million light years away is foucsed on my thoughts using output to affect our world somehow. I also arrange things in an order of what I Feel would be most beneficial and condusive for a peacefull society. A system of absolutes and inclusiveness makes for disagreement and fighting. No peace there.. I'm all over the place with my views.. You'd be surprised I'm sure. We shouldn't be so quick to judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Premier March 28, 2004 Share DJ Premier Member March 28, 2004 A system of absolutes and inclusiveness makes for disagreement and fighting. I ABSOLUTELY agree. Thus we have brothers and sisters killing each other off and justifying it in the name of their religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gOOters March 28, 2004 Share gOOters Member March 28, 2004 But they aren't really embracing their religion. For example, I dont think a true Muslim would kill on behalf of their religion. Nor would a true Christian. That religion gives man an opportunity to do as he sees fit and make excuses for it...that is probably true. Christianity (which I follow) is really a belief rather than a religion unto itself (there are religions within Christianity though...Baptist, Catholicism, etc)...I am just a Christian. I believe what I believe, and if anyone wants to ask me about it, great! I dont think it does anyone any favors for Christians to come across slamming others and making moral decrees. I would rather lead by example (which I do miserably) than by telling others to "believe what I believe". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Premier March 28, 2004 Share DJ Premier Member March 28, 2004 But they aren't really embracing their religion. For example, I dont think a true Muslim would kill on behalf of their religion. Nor would a true Christian. That religion gives man an opportunity to do as he sees fit and make excuses for it...that is probably true. Christianity (which I follow) is really a belief rather than a religion unto itself (there are religions within Christianity though...Baptist, Catholicism, etc)...I am just a Christian. I believe what I believe, and if anyone wants to ask me about it, great! I dont think it does anyone any favors for Christians to come across slamming others and making moral decrees. I would rather lead by example (which I do miserably) than by telling others to "believe what I believe". Yes, I agree. I wasn't trying to say that religion based on absolutism causes killing, I was basically saying that with absolutism comes intolerance and with intolerance comes messages of hate and with hate it could breed violence. We have seen it happen in the crusades of the past and we are seeing signs of it today with the crusades of the present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa March 28, 2004 Share Playaa Member March 28, 2004 I agree with goot I'd say the saddest thing about religion especially Judeo-Christian religions is that there are way too many idiots who read small parts of it and use it to justify their horrid actions...it's sickening I do think that eastern religions have gotten quite a few things right with the peace and love crap....just wish we could get it through our decidedly western heads I don't think absolutes breed intolerance...I think absolutes are just absolutes...that's like saying that the gasoline in my car caused the hit and run...the gas is the fuel for the car...the absolute is the fuel for the man...what you do with the fuel is however a choice and one that you can't blame on the fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gOOters March 28, 2004 Share gOOters Member March 28, 2004 Readthe new testament, if followed to the letter it represents many absolutes without intolerance. Rather it outlines absolutes AND tolerance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower March 29, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member March 29, 2004 But they aren't really embracing their religion. For example, I dont think a true Muslim would kill on behalf of their religion. Nor would a true Christian. That religion gives man an opportunity to do as he sees fit and make excuses for it...that is probably true. Christianity (which I follow) is really a belief rather than a religion unto itself (there are religions within Christianity though...Baptist, Catholicism, etc)...I am just a Christian. I believe what I believe, and if anyone wants to ask me about it, great! I dont think it does anyone any favors for Christians to come across slamming others and making moral decrees. I would rather lead by example (which I do miserably) than by telling others to "believe what I believe". Too many idiots who read small parts of it and use it to justify their horrid actions...it's sickening Problem is it is Whole Nations(or at least big parts) acting on their radical beliefs. And they all are very similar in beliefs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane March 29, 2004 Share jane Member March 29, 2004 when i say the buddhits religion makes man god, i simply mean that we are allowed to make our own descisions and make what ever FEELS right to be right. In effect you are your own judge, which makes you to be a god, of sorts. I dont think this thought process is very tolerant because it ends up taking bits and peices of every religion and saying go ahead do it your own way. But it forgets the fact that if we do it our own way, noone will end up doing things that are right. It makes for a very fluid and evassive religon that spurns the truth and the right. It rejects that thought of purity in one way. Basically, if you seem to be intolerant, you are shunned by the Buddhist thought(aka also the PC of this age), since all things are equal/right. WT i dont know if you directed this: We shouldn't be so quick to judgement. at me or not but i dont think what i said was judging. I appoligize if it seemed so, i didnt mean it in such a way. Was jsut wondering what was going on.... jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCaster March 29, 2004 Share ShadowCaster Member March 29, 2004 (edited) Intolerance is sort of the bases of Christianity though. They are to love all people no matter what, no questions asked. (Intolerant in the decree, tolerant in the action) Jesus is the Messiah and only way to heaven, to be tolerant and say there is another way is to go against the core of your belief. If Christians say ok, just be a good person, there is no reason for Christ. If there are many ways to heaven, then Christ was a liar because He said, "The only way to heaven is through Me." Now, Christians are to be tolerant of people, because that is how Christians accept and love people. Yet, to be tolerant of the point of saying, "You choose, it's your choice of religion," is sort of condemning a person to Hell if the only way to heaven is Christ. It is your choice to choose your religion, and to be forced is almost impossible, because if it is forced then the religious experience will probably not be true. The crusades are a good example of this, bad choice for the Catholics/Christians to do. Etc....I'm losing my train of thought, some probably didn't make sense. I'll write again when I can focus. Edited March 29, 2004 by ShadowCaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX March 29, 2004 Share NOFX Member March 29, 2004 (edited) I sort of followed you.... I dont think this thought process is very tolerant because it ends up taking bits and peices of every religion and saying go ahead do it your own way. But it forgets the fact that if we do it our own way, noone will end up doing things that are right. It makes for a very fluid and evassive religon that spurns the truth and the right. It rejects that thought of purity in one way. You chose buddhism because you want to, not because you are told its the "right" way. A buddhist would not believe there is a right way, nor would a buddhist claim he knows the "truth". A buddhist would not say your going to hell for not following his way either. Buddhism is more of a way of life. Follow the link and read up on the religion. It might help you understand where a buddhist would come from. Edited March 29, 2004 by NOFX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCaster March 29, 2004 Share ShadowCaster Member March 29, 2004 (edited) Does nirvana pretty much mean that you go out of existence? Edited March 29, 2004 by ShadowCaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gOOters March 29, 2004 Share gOOters Member March 29, 2004 Good distinction Shadow...I think I followed you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar April 2, 2004 Share Crowbar Member April 2, 2004 "They are not doctrines to kill or fight or die for" Why believe then? It is all based on feelings, it has no point, no center, nothing solid to stand on. Believing in everything is no different then believing in nothing, and if you believe in nothing, why are you here? Watch, DJ, how does this answer any of your questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower April 3, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member April 3, 2004 "They are not doctrines to kill or fight or die for" Why believe then? It is all based on feelings, it has no point, no center, nothing solid to stand on. Believing in everything is no different then believing in nothing, and if you believe in nothing, why are you here? Watch, DJ, how does this answer any of your questions? Everybody believes in Something. Some believe in ways that effect their life very directly. Deep thought, meditation, breathing, "oneness?" Focus. Some believe every so often in sort of an indirect way and just let the cards fall. Belief in everything. To exist you have to believe in Something. I don't get your point.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soul .gc April 3, 2004 Share soul .gc Member April 3, 2004 Wrong Watch. Atheists believe in nothing, that we are just a random occurrence and just here for your lifespan and then dead forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX April 4, 2004 Share NOFX Member April 4, 2004 (edited) Wrong Watch. Atheists believe in nothing, that we are just a random occurrence and just here for your lifespan and then dead forever. Wrong Soul. Atheists believe that we are just a random occurrence and just here for your lifespan and then dead forever. Edited April 4, 2004 by NOFX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX April 4, 2004 Share NOFX Member April 4, 2004 (edited) And acctually your statement is wrong also an atheist is someone who doesnt believe in a god or Gods. Has nothing to do with random occurances and whatnot. The way I see it people can have some atheist thoughts and be part of a buddhist religion as well. Edited April 4, 2004 by NOFX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower April 4, 2004 Author Share Watchtower Member April 4, 2004 My point was most Atheist believe they exist. That is believing in something. Everyone believes in something. Just not all on a Godly plane.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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