Thomas Aquinas February 16, 2005 Share Thomas Aquinas Member February 16, 2005 Now their is one phrase that I see often in the server that somewhat confuses me; "Why can't we use mature language in..." Mature? Mature language would be something along the lines of saying, "That jumping, no scoped, 10,000 yard scout head shot vexes me." Mature language is something that, to me, would actually require thought, and heaven forbid, a vocabulary consisting of more than 27 words. Then again perhaps my understanding of "Mature" is clouded and is intended to mean the language that old people like Fatty, Lunk, or Shodan use rather than language that is worked out carefully by the mind. But, if "Mature language" were to have the former meaning then people who had just been killed by Lunk throwing a nerf bat at them from the end of the long hall on italy would say things like, "CURSES!" or perhaps "Foiled again by that rapscallion!" The thing that entertains me the most about individuals that choose to argue for the changing or adjusting of GC server rules to allow for Profanity (because that is the non-ambiguous term specifically assigned to describe the language in question rather than the euphamism 'mature') attempt to use seemingly sophisticated arguments to support their viewpoint. Herein lies an interesting paradox; how is it that an individual obviously capable of complex thought would choose to argue for a medium of expression that is so base as to not require the firing of a single neron to come out? I mean really, lets think about this, how is the usage of something so base and demeaning possibly construed to be mature? Is it mature to express anger or frustration towards another individual over something so imaterial as a computer game? Is it mature to use mindless idomatic expressions popular on cable TV and today's movies to attempt to demean another individual? Is it mature to lose control of yourself to the point where it makes sense to you to suspened all rational thought and attempt to make another individual PLAYING A VIDEO GAME appear to be inferior to you for some ambiguous and unimportant reason? No, none of these things are mature. Maturity is something that is not based on age or social status. It is not something determined by one's view of themself. Maturity is the silent adoption of one's responsibilities in life before man and God. Maturity is suppressing the instincts and urges of the natural man and striving to become divine. For those not familiar to religious terms, or who don't agree with the usage of religious arguments, maturity in this case refers to the full development of one both socially and mentally. It means that if you are angry for some reason at something so inconsequential as a computer game that you exercise a modicum of self control! In short, respect your fellow gamers and have fun! And do your best not to become old, like Lunk, Fatty, or Shodan (j/k you guys know I love you... uh... in a completely platonic way of course... yeah... DOH!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruten February 16, 2005 Share Kruten Member February 16, 2005 Perfect! This is what we need, except for this to become a permanent thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3atH-w|$h February 16, 2005 Share d3atH-w|$h Member February 16, 2005 Very well thought out tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mHtt February 16, 2005 Share mHtt Member February 16, 2005 (edited) how is it that an individual obviously capable of complex thought would choose to argue for a medium of expression that is so base as to not require the firing of a single neron(sic) to come out? Heh, nice try, you can't just create a flawed argument as this, and then use it's flaw to support your own opinion, this is a straw argument. Here's Why: It takes not only millions of neurons to inhale, open one's jaw, manipulate the larynx and toungue in a way that project audible vocal strings in a manner that is decipherable to those exposed to the contemprary lexicon. Not to mention the neurons required to conjure up a suitable word, and then hit the voicrerecord key to broadcast it into the server. I mean really, lets think about this, how is the usage of something so base and demeaning possibly construed to be mature? Is it mature to express anger or frustration towards another individual over something so imaterial as a computer game? ...No, none of these things are mature. All of your questions really hinge on a clear definition of 'mature' something, you strive honorably, yet fail to communicate in any specific fashion. Firstly we need to understand that not all instances of 'mature' language are equal. Indeed context plays a major role. The other day I was banned for saying: "s**t sorry" over the mic when I lobbed a nade that hit a teammate. This is a perfect example of how this policy negatively effects the server. I was punished for an action that was done out of good will, simply because an admin desired to hold up server beurocracy. Is it mature to use mindless idomatic expressions popular on cable TV and today's movies to attempt to demean another individual? Is it mature to lose control of yourself to the point where it makes sense to you to suspened all rational thought and attempt to make another individual PLAYING A VIDEO GAME appear to be inferior to you for some ambiguous and unimportant reason? Secondly, You are really just stating the same point here. What's unfortunate is that in the context your giving it, it is necessary for you to determine the perpetrator's motivations for them. You don't know if they intend to demean the individual, your simply assuming to know what their motivations are. This is similar to children in the school yard who assume to know what someone's intentions are, and therefore justify a reaction. Your quite ironically resorting to decidedly immature tactics (motivation assumption) to reinforce your argument. Also, I don't think you thought this through: Is it mature to express anger or frustration towards another individual over something so immaterial(sic) as a computer game? This statement alone could also be used to disregard server policy, for are those who are being offended by such profanity, also reacting with anger or frustration over something so immaterial as a computer game. In fact why not just ignore people who swear altogether, then the use of these words would have no legitimate purpose, and they'd probably stop being used. It's exactly reactions like yours that fuel people whose only desire is to get a resoinse out of you. Personally, I do think the the .gc policy needs to be changed. Not in a way that allows people to cuss all they want, but in a way that distinguishes swearing done in the heat of battle and adrenaline, from cussing done arbitrarily, or to intentionally harm, or attack someone. This would prevent legitmate instances of swearing to communicate a genuine emotion (fear, surprise, humour, sorrow) from being confused with more immature individuals, who act in a way that harasses people, and effects them negatively. To wit: I would define maturity, as the quality of the personality that arbitrates the ability to empathize with others in a way that allows one to conduct themself in a manner that maximizes the contentment of the greatest number of people. Edited February 16, 2005 by mHtt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3atH-w|$h February 16, 2005 Share d3atH-w|$h Member February 16, 2005 lol i post too soon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless February 17, 2005 Share Clueless GC Alumni February 17, 2005 Why does'nt someone step outside to the lobby and count how many recent threads we now have on this topic and explain when it will be enough? C'mon guys, lets not fill up the whole joint with language topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Aquinas February 17, 2005 Author Share Thomas Aquinas Member February 17, 2005 (edited) sorry mHtt, I will make sure I make it very clear when I am exagerating for effect/emphasis and when I am being literal by using this format: :::EXAGERATION TO FOLLOW::: (insert exageration here) :::END EXAGERATION::: But seriously, I don't mind if you don't agree with my viewpoint or if you feel that the rules are inadequate. The question I have is this, how is it that profanity, spoken by an individual without thought (i.e. your example of the apology offered above in game) is mature? One of the most important aspects of maturity is, to me (and perhaps this is where the greatest point of disagreement lies), not acting out mindlessly or without thought, but being the master of one's self (obviously there are other aspects of maturity that are not mentioned simply because they are not relevent in this context). GC, as I understand it, has created its rules in order to make its servers different then all the other servers out there. For that to happen there must be a line drawn somewhere. The admins have apparently decided that it is difficult and/or annoying to try to have to determine malicious swearing from... :::EXAGERATION TO FOLLOW::: cute, cuddly, happy swearing. :::END EXAGERATION::: I apologize for assuming to understand what some people's intentions are in swearing. I am sure that most people that are frustrated by the actions of another in game and proceed to swear at them, follow them around, and TK are not really angry, and that their feelings are too opaque to be interpreted by anyone other than themself. I am reasonably sure that most of the admins don't get angry when they hear or see people swearing, they simply boot/ban them. As for ignoring swearing leading to people not swearing anymore, I am sure you are correct and that the other 4000 CS:S servers are just anomolies in that no one argues about the language being used and people still swear on them. Also, profanity used among high-school students when speaking to each other, as well as rap singers, rock singers, etc. in songs most likely would never be used if people didn't react to it.......right... that is why high-school students speaking among themselves with no one but them around will still swear... The only thing that still confuses me is that you have admitted that swearing is hurtful, but you think that sometimes it is not. Well, is it or isn't it? The language used when one is swearing is either a bad thing or a good thing. If you feel it is a good thing and not a bad thing, then the question remains, is it the BEST thing? No. There exists better forms of self-expression than profanity. So, is swearing good or bad? In life there really is no gray, only black and white (then again, this is being written by someone who belives in both God and absolute truth so you might disagree on that point to). Edited February 17, 2005 by Thomas Aquinas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty February 17, 2005 Share Fatty GC Founder February 17, 2005 To wit: I would define maturity, as the quality of the personality that arbitrates the ability to empathize with others in a way that allows one to conduct themself in a manner that maximizes the contentment of the greatest number of people. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you just defined "tolerance." We're not here to please the majority, in fact, we openly admit that our rules are indeed unpopular with the majority. This is the biggest flaw in yours and everyone else's arguments about our standards and policies: You still think we are striving to please more and make the most people happy. We are not. We're not out for mass-contentment. You may not like it, but our goal is not to create an environment that is pleasing to you. It's to create an environment that meets OUR standards, and then enjoy the fellowship with others that have the same ideals and agree with said standards. You can't find one instance of anyone in this community trying to change people's ways of thinking, only their behavior while visiting our home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillow_Head February 17, 2005 Share Brillow_Head Member February 17, 2005 ^^ding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiX February 17, 2005 Share SiX Member February 17, 2005 Fatty is great at laying things to rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Aquinas February 17, 2005 Author Share Thomas Aquinas Member February 17, 2005 Wow, that's a really susinct way of putting it... Guess you have time to think of ways to turn a phrase like that when all you do is sit back and collect everyone's dues Just kidding Fatty, you work your tail of for this community and I know and appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodan February 17, 2005 Share Shodan Member February 17, 2005 Wow, that's a really susinct way of putting it... Guess you have time to think of ways to turn a phrase like that when all you do is sit back and collect everyone's dues Just kidding Fatty, you work your tail of for this community and I know and appreciate it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And to act "old" apparently while you are sitting back collecting those dues. (I now picture Fatty in a rocking chair) I think this overly verbose young man needs a severe beating about the head and ears to teach him to respect his elders. A reasonably severe thrashing tends to remind those young whippersnappers of their proper place. (Darn, dropped my teeth again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Aquinas February 17, 2005 Author Share Thomas Aquinas Member February 17, 2005 love it Shodan, love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mHtt February 17, 2005 Share mHtt Member February 17, 2005 The question I have is this, how is it that profanity, spoken by an individual without thought (i.e. your example of the apology offered above in game) is mature? Actually this is an example of someone using a cuss word, in order to convey the urgency of the following apology. It is a perfect example of a thoughtful swear word. The only thing that still confuses me is that you have admitted that swearing is hurtful, but you think that sometimes it is not. Well, is it or isn't it? Well, sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't, as i stated previously, it depends on the context. As far as creating a community that meets your standards, and does not cater to other's views, that is entirely acceptable, I was simply pointing out the inconsistincies in Thomas' argument, in order to further a constructive debate. It was when you responded to my furthering of his argument, that a clear explanation of why the rules are the way they are came out. This was my intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty February 17, 2005 Share Fatty GC Founder February 17, 2005 Great. Understand that when you try to speak over your head, using big words and long sentences in combination with incorrect grammar really gets you nowhere. Seems to be a plague as of very late in these forums with people trying to go large on a debate while using bad spelling (not typos) and incorrect sentence structure. I really take people less seriously when they attempt to do this. I'd rather hear someone speak plainly from the hip than fumble through an attempt at good writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruten February 17, 2005 Share Kruten Member February 17, 2005 Why does'nt someone step outside to the lobby and count how many recent threads we now have on this topic and explain when it will be enough? C'mon guys, lets not fill up the whole joint with language topics. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which is why I suggest we make one of these topics permanent so new people don't make more language topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty February 17, 2005 Share Fatty GC Founder February 17, 2005 The answer to that is because we are still refining our answer to be as efficient, comprehendable, and encompassing as possible. It's a work in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Aquinas February 17, 2005 Author Share Thomas Aquinas Member February 17, 2005 Here's a suscinct way of putting it Fatty: "Hey, we pay for the servers, we make the rules. Deal with it." Sure it's a little "fifth grade" but hey, it's true isn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL February 18, 2005 Share dwEEziL Member February 18, 2005 <in little girly-boy voice>Wah-wah, forget you guys...I'm taking my ball and going home and telling my mommy. /me runs away bawling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duma February 18, 2005 Share duma Member February 18, 2005 Here's a suscinct way of putting it Fatty: "Hey, we pay for the servers, we make the rules. Deal with it." Sure it's a little "fifth grade" but hey, it's true isn't it <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is exactly it. There is a simple answer to this, and it can not be debated with logic. Simply stated, the server providers of GC paid for a mature game. They furthered paid for a server that does not permit cussing. Though this is , or may be, an irony, it is a personal choice. As it is, we pay for what we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunk February 18, 2005 Share Lunk Member February 18, 2005 eh eh eh? Man I think my battery in my hearing aid died again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NyxErinyes February 19, 2005 Share NyxErinyes Member February 19, 2005 lol... I really ought to read ALL the boards before I post... lol I was browsing the GotBanned? forums today and saw a rash of language complaints, and posted my own very similar topic. lol GG Tom, and sorry to any that consider it a waste of time/space. lol woops. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_Berge_00 February 20, 2005 Share Ice_Berge_00 GC Alumni February 20, 2005 hm, someone should explain to mHtt the difference between a Wise-man and a Wise-guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*BiGBonES** February 21, 2005 Share *BiGBonES** Member February 21, 2005 Can you explain to me the difference between a wise-man and a wise-guy I think the server policies here are outstanding, and sometimes I find it hard to believe that the majority of people disagree with these policies. The spirit amoungst members of this community is high and this is the way to keep things, as we have a great bunch of regulars playing on these servers I think I can now call Recrudescene my second home Peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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