Guest the mack September 23, 2002 Share Guest the mack Guests September 23, 2002 fatty u will never change hambones ideas in this forum and hambone u cannot convert fatty to being an aetheist...this topic was really good untill people started throwing aroud too many sites....use your own information fatty and hambone....(isnt that like plagerism fatty? u should know more than me about it cause im not sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeabos September 23, 2002 Share Zeabos Member September 23, 2002 The one extremely pointed Error in the bible is the one which they pointed out in the movie about the "Brown vs School" Case (i think thats it) Its called like Inherit the Wind. Anywho, Cain got shunned away and was sent to the other land. Well over their he had kids the bible says(of course its not a direct quote its the general idea ) Now how did he have kids? did "Someone pull a Creation over in the next county?"(Inherit the wind) Where did Mrs. Cain come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob September 23, 2002 Share Guest Bob Guests September 23, 2002 Wait a second, lets take a look at this.... I've never claimed that science was perfect, that science never made an error. On the other hand Fatty asked Ham to point out one error in the Bible. It is a FACT that the bible states a great flood took place and the only survivors of this flood were Noah, his family and the animals he placed on the Ark. It's a FACT that no flood affected the Egyptians of the same time period. The bible says a flood happened, the erosion evidence, the recorded history, works of art, monuments and tombs in Egypt say no such flood could have possibly occurred. (at least in Egypt, which means it couldn't have been worldwide) I was pointing out an error in the Bible, as I understand it. I was not attacking anyone nor did I create the site which points out some odd inconsistencies in the Bible. So if you'd like to create a list of scientific inconsistencies, by all means, have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX September 23, 2002 Share NOFX Member September 23, 2002 I also believe it would be scientifically impossible for one man to part a sea as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa September 23, 2002 Share Playaa Member September 23, 2002 EVERYONE SHUT UP, THIS ARGUMENT IS GETTING NOWHERE AND NEVER WILL!!! Evolutionists think Creationists are morons for believing in something without physical evidence, Creationists think Evolutionists are dumb for ignoring the complexity of nature and thinking that all of this happened by chance. We will NEVER get anywhere with this and it's only tinkleing ppl off. I thought this was a community of mature individuals but my opinion of alot of ppl has changed due to this topic. This community was designed for Counter-Strike, leave it there. AND STOP ATTEMPTING SOMETHING SO FUTILE!!! and what in the world are you talking about NOFX? of course it's scientifically impossible for a man to part a sea....that's why it's a MIRACLE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty September 23, 2002 Share Fatty GC Founder September 23, 2002 Wow, I came back to share a few findings with Bob and what a mess. There is no way to continue all of this without breaking it down. There is plenty of reasearch to talk to each of the above questions and/or statements, including the flood. I will not post these sites nor any last words to avoid the "he just wanted the last word" attack. I will simply say that it's out of hand with too many people jumping on at the end. Perhaps Hambone and I can continue a debate where it can be focused without interuption. Gotta go coach football now. TTYL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConGregation September 23, 2002 Share ConGregation Member September 23, 2002 The one extremely pointed Error in the bible is the one which they pointed out in the movie about the "Brown vs School" Case (i think thats it) Its called like Inherit the Wind. Anywho, Cain got shunned away and was sent to the other land. Well over their he had kids the bible says(of course its not a direct quote its the general idea ) Now how did he have kids? did "Someone pull a Creation over in the next county?"(Inherit the wind) Where did Mrs. Cain come from? Tsk, tsk... getting your arguments from Hollywood, Zeabos? Well the Bible says he had a wife. So she must have gone with him. This is one of those questions that the Bible scoffers always ask. "So where did Cain get his wife, huh, HUH!" Well there are some pretty far out answers that some people have put forth but it seem very simple to me. He married a sister. Thats the only logical answer. And if Eve "Was the mother of all living" than that has to be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeabos September 23, 2002 Share Zeabos Member September 23, 2002 Maybe adam and evve looked alot different than us..all this inbreeding and we may have evolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini_Me September 23, 2002 Share Mini_Me GC Founder September 23, 2002 2 Corinthians 9:7 - Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Psalms 11:5 - The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, and his soul hates him that loves violence. ---------------------------------------- Trying to phrase this correctly. God clearly shows emotion here. He loves, He hates. It has also been said that without love, we can not have hate. How did God learn to love/hate? He made us in his image... a child doesnt know emotion until he learns of it from someone. He's hungry so he cries, he is given care so he learns to love, he is wronged so he learns to hate. If there was only Him around how did He learn emotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone September 23, 2002 Author Share Hambone Member September 23, 2002 That article you clipped for me was interesting, I read it through. Endosymbiosis, however, is not an incorrect theory, despite that argument. Phagocytosis was and still is a daily behavior, and organelles gradually began to coexist inside one another. They are phospholipid bound organelles, i.e. they were completely independent prior to being endocytosed, and instead of being hydrolyzed in lysosomes, they became part of the heterotroph and functioned in the cytosol. Part of that genesis argument does not deny that all animals originated from cells. This is true regardless of how much Jesus wishes it weren't, but I'll continue. It says that the origin for the cell is where Creationism comes into play. This is not true though. Again, a reasonably smart man writing a pro-Creation article that is not entirely up to date on modern theory. A man named Oparin discusses the origin of biological molecules necessary for cells to exist, the beginning of life so to speak. I won't go into extreme detail, because I have in prior posts here already. Basically, with extreme energy, primitive gases combine to form biological molecules. As they aggregate, or hyrdolyze to reach lower free energy states, they produce the most primitive life on the planet. Since this was moved to Wonderland, I have another question to ask to Christians mainly, but to anyone who feels they can comment. Christians believe in Heaven, an afterlife after this world. So, why not kill everyone in the entire world? Send them all to Heaven, you'd be a hero. Of course, it's a sin to kill. But Jesus suffered for all of mankind apparently, so if one man thinks he has what it takes to kill everyone and accept sin and punishment, would he not be a Messiah? By killing everyone you send them all to Heaven, if you truly believe that. The man who sends you is your Savior, accepting sin to better your existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConGregation September 23, 2002 Share ConGregation Member September 23, 2002 Christians believe in Heaven, an afterlife after this world. So, why not kill everyone in the entire world? Send them all to Heaven, you'd be a hero. Of course, it's a sin to kill. But Jesus suffered for all of mankind apparently, so if one man thinks he has what it takes to kill everyone and accept sin and punishment, would he not be a Messiah? By killing everyone you send them all to Heaven, if you truly believe that. The man who sends you is your Savior, accepting sin to better your existence. I must say that makes no sense to me. Have you read through the Bible, Hambone? Your ideas are really far fetched from Bible teaching. Everyone is NOT going to Heaven. Christians have a purpose for staying here after salvation. And Our Messiah "took upon himself" the sin of the world. He did not sin but took the punishment FOR sin. All your intellectual theorizing about Christianity leaves out the any real christian evidence. This is true regardless of how much Jesus wishes it weren't Again you use flammatory language. I think you only desire to incite and provoke. You have no desire to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConGregation September 23, 2002 Share ConGregation Member September 23, 2002 2 Corinthians 9:7 - Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Psalms 11:5 - The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, and his soul hates him that loves violence. ---------------------------------------- Trying to phrase this correctly. God clearly shows emotion here. He loves, He hates. It has also been said that without love, we can not have hate. How did God learn to love/hate? He made us in his image... a child doesnt know emotion until he learns of it from someone. He's hungry so he cries, he is given care so he learns to love, he is wronged so he learns to hate. If there was only Him around how did He learn emotion? How did God learn emotion? Who says he had to learn it. The example of us learning it by response to conditioning is a stretch, IMHO. I heard real anger when my babies came home from the hospital Just take away their food source and look at the response. Actually it is kind of funny cause my boy is totally the opposite. I remember when he was tiny and still on a bottle that if you jerked the bottle out of his mouth he would smile! I try that on every kid I see with a bottle now. Never do I get that response. Of course Dad just loved doing it and spent WAY too much time sticking the bottle in... and jerking the bottle out... etc. Im hoping he isnt too far removed from normal. It is an interesting thought. Maybe someone else has a better answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini_Me September 23, 2002 Share Mini_Me GC Founder September 23, 2002 Im curious on Fat's answers to the website Bob pointed out listing quite a few inconsistencies/errors. Ill just throw one up for conversation sake: Revelation 8 7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. Revelation 9 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Now alot of "errors" so to speak come out of how you interpret each verse, but I chose this one because this seems straight forward. If the Christians take the Book literally and every word is His word, then how can these errors be present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty September 23, 2002 Share Fatty GC Founder September 23, 2002 Well, before I go any further, one says green grass, the other says grass...so the green grass was gone and what was left? Moreover, how much time went by? How long does it take for grass to grow? I will have to go back and read the two chapters in succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini_Me September 23, 2002 Share Mini_Me GC Founder September 23, 2002 good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty September 23, 2002 Share Fatty GC Founder September 23, 2002 To Bob re: the flood. I agree with what this person says: Thus, there is a conflict between Egyptian chronology as generally interpreted and the Biblical records. Neither the first dynasty of Egypt nor the pyramids could have existed before the flood. If the Bible is historically reliable, as I believe it is, then there must be a mistake in the usual interpretation of Egyptian chronology which needs to be reduced by centuries. The issue is clear. An acceptance of the present chronological interpretation of Egyptian history, and a rejection of the Biblical chronology, opens the door to skepticism of the rest of the early Biblical records, including the record of the Creation of the world in six days. But if Egyptian chronology can be shown to be flawed, a major obstacle to the acceptance of the Bible records is removed, and the Genesis history stands justified. That is taken directly from: Searching for Moses, by David Down Ok, now what we're left with is two documents that say something that conflicts. For one to be true, the other must be flawed. Do we have evidence that states the translation of Egyptian history has been done perfectly so as to prove the Bible flawed? Can we say for sure either way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone September 24, 2002 Author Share Hambone Member September 24, 2002 Not everyone went to Heaven in the "great flood" either, according to the story. And I don't see why the question isn't valid. You simply said it is invalid, I didn't get an acceptable answer for why it isn't. I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone September 24, 2002 Author Share Hambone Member September 24, 2002 Here's an interesting article to read while you wait. It's not persuasive, just objective. http://www.discover.com/science_news/newsf.../news_fish.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty September 24, 2002 Share Fatty GC Founder September 24, 2002 Not everyone went to Heaven in the "great flood" either, according to the story. And I don't see why the question isn't valid. You simply said it is invalid, I didn't get an acceptable answer for why it isn't. I'll wait. Who are you talking to? Didn't read invalid comment recently...where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone September 24, 2002 Author Share Hambone Member September 24, 2002 Christians believe in Heaven, an afterlife after this world. So, why not kill everyone in the entire world? Send them all to Heaven, you'd be a hero. Of course, it's a sin to kill. But Jesus suffered for all of mankind apparently, so if one man thinks he has what it takes to kill everyone and accept sin and punishment, would he not be a Messiah? By killing everyone you send them all to Heaven, if you truly believe that. The man who sends you is your Savior, accepting sin to better your existence. Just a repeat of what I said before. The idea is proposterous, I'd like to hear why though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty September 24, 2002 Share Fatty GC Founder September 24, 2002 so if one man thinks he has what it takes to kill everyone and accept sin and punishment, would he not be a Messiah? By killing everyone you send them all to Heaven, if you truly believe that. The man who sends you is your Savior, accepting sin to better your existence. You know, it's normal for people to sit and ponder, but to actually try and create a rationale discussion out of something like this is rather simple. You've spent so much time discussing things so well, and then you type this.... And if, by any stretch, you're not just being 17 but you're actually sitting there pondering a question like this, then I fear your thinking is not far from people that eventually get locked away. If you want to continue a debate, don't produce rhetorical questions like this, as if you're trying to act like you're some confused, unstable terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConGregation September 24, 2002 Share ConGregation Member September 24, 2002 I didnt say the idea was perposterous. I only pointed out that it is far removed from Bible teaching. Thus, since you asked for a christian's viewpoint, it is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty September 24, 2002 Share Fatty GC Founder September 24, 2002 Lol i guess I figured it out...let me put even more thought into it for you then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone September 24, 2002 Author Share Hambone Member September 24, 2002 Quit avoiding it. I've heard how the idea was bad. Tell me why. Send the good to Heaven and the evil to Hell right? Judgement. Rewards and Punishments. That's what god is all about? -edit- I said the idea was proposterous, ConGregation. I never hinted at the fact that you said it. And I want a Christian viewpoint on it. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty September 24, 2002 Share Fatty GC Founder September 24, 2002 <raises hand> I'll lower myself here! Me! Me! Um, <leafs through Bible, knowing it's in here somewhere>, wait! What about moral law? It exists...<tries to find his Kant writings>...killing...<searches more> Killing is bad? Again, you're sinking. Let's raise the bar back up. Readers: I apologize for my above actions, but I just had to release a little while I was proving a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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