Trouble .gc November 15, 2003 Share Trouble .gc Member November 15, 2003 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." 3:6 "In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." i like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy November 15, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member November 15, 2003 hey knock, I havent seen you aroung (unless you changed your name to trouble) I think I recall trouble sounding like you:) anyways I have a hard time with this. Does If I'm not to lean on my own understanding does that mean I can throw education out. It's these verses I struggle with concerning the issue of faith. When I get a headache should I trust in my own understanding and take asprin...or pray? is this fair of me. I had this conversation with my father-in-law not too long ago. I can't remember what he said but I think it was something to the effect that God gives us wisdom through natural things sometimes. So the wisdom of doctors is not truly a violation of faith. However I still get the sense from verses like this that it means if I think there is a solution DONT DO IT! Go Gods way, but how do I know my way is not God instructing me? I like Kieth Greens words "just keep doing your best and pray that it's blessed, and Jesus takes care of the rest!" Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane November 16, 2003 Share jane Member November 16, 2003 to me its as it says. trust in the lord, he will make things right for you. Lean not on your own understanding, because we are not even close to as wise/smart/knowledgable as he is. Acknowledge him, becasue He is God, and in doing so, He will provide for you when and where you need it. He will direct your pathss, through life and lvoe and happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy November 17, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member November 17, 2003 Jane doesnt it say we will suffer persecution? I take this passage to mean that in the end we will be credited righteouss. But I do tend to read it for what it says which is why I struggle with some of the ideas I come across. povision when we need it? I agree, but what does provision mean. I tend to think some people (ala Job) suffered for a testing. During this time things were taken from him not provided to him. But in the end the provision was there. So I agree but I don't think its a provision of bread and water (not that it never is bread or water) just that the main provision is spiritual strength. Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar November 17, 2003 Share Crowbar Member November 17, 2003 we live on earth. God put us here. He also put a lot of things here to help us. If you have a headache, take the asprin, God's given you the understanding to know that asprin will help your headache. "In all your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your path." i.e. Give him credit for the times he helped you out. Auggy, you mentioned in the other thread that you lost your keys and couldn't find them, then they were in an obvious spot. maybe it was just that you overlooked them, maybe it was God. who's to say which it was, but regardless, thank him for helping you find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower November 17, 2003 Share Watchtower Member November 17, 2003 But isn't a passage like this what leads to the people that dont believe in hospitals or drugs? Some people Won't take an aspirin or any modern medicine because of this passage.. Right? Which makes sense to me because God has a plan for you.. If you choose not to take meds, thats what God meant you to do right? If you were sick to the point of death, that's what was meant to be and taking any sort of medicine is working against Gods will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy November 17, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member November 17, 2003 exactly watch, to further my point I struggle with things like "they will be bitten by poisonous snakes and not die" so people dance with rattlers, child gets bit, they don't take em to the hospital. What do they do...."they pray". Some people do both...they take em to the hospital and they pray. The first group would say "compromise" When Jesus asked Peter to step out of the boat to walk on water. Would it have been wise for peter to say 'oh dude i'll throw that board in the water then step out, in case i start to sink ill grab on to the board..." I know, I know, cheesy... But seriously I understand watches thoughts on this. I get frustrated cause I feel like people think it's easy to trust in God. Isn't that hilrious, thats what our faith is about yet were all sinners. We're all faithfully challenged (politically correct for saying jacked up). Is it wisdom to step out of a boat in a huge storm. It is if God says it is. Will we drown? Thats the part I can't answer. He says he'll direct our paths and the last time I read, many people died for this faith. Some were sawed into two, crucified, tortured, fed to dogs and lions.... WOW not that is faith!!!! I think him directing our paths doesnt mean life will be swell. I think it means eternity with him is a lock! Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane November 17, 2003 Share jane Member November 17, 2003 I think him directing our paths doesnt mean life will be swell. I think it means eternity with him is a lock! gg auggy nice, very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyFromHell`X November 18, 2003 Share CowboyFromHell`X Member November 18, 2003 (edited) I'd say it means trust "god" in everything you do, and don't try to do anything without him because he'll guide you in everything you do (ONLY if you want him to). Meh, just a guess. Edited November 18, 2003 by CowboyFromHell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy November 18, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member November 18, 2003 Cowboy, I think the part I struggle with is the "lean not on your own understanding..." This makes it difficult, especially cause there are two parts raging war in me. Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower November 18, 2003 Share Watchtower Member November 18, 2003 The way I see it is it was alot easier back in the day to throw all of your trivial knowledge to the wind and trust in a great God.. There just wasn't much knowlege and more speculation. Times they are a changin.. I think if you're going to believe, you should be a literal as possible. Otherwise you are just washing it out.. Ie; "leaning on your own understanding".. That is where my big problem comes with Christianity. It allows you to believe in degrees saying that one belief of the same system is wrong. I don't know.. I guess what I'm saying is I have alot more respect for people who fundamentally believe as opposed to those who try to modernize the bible. If it were the plan, it would be written in a way to last the ages and not have to be re-written over and over.. Just found this quote, "The Written Word of God, the Bible, is eternal". and that the Bible is without error. I'm gonna sit down and read it one of these days The bible is read front to back right? <-- Shows total lack of any biblical knowledge Seriously tho, All i've ever know people to do is flip through it and find the phrases they like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble .gc November 18, 2003 Author Share Trouble .gc Member November 18, 2003 thanks for all your responses. its nice to see different opinions, yet ones of faith. i tend to stear clear of posting in the spirituality and beyond forums. why? i don't know. i never really got that indepth about my faith before. maybe because it was shoved down my throat as a child/young adult? i have attended catholic schools my entire life. K-12. i use to be very active in the church, and very sure about my beliefs. things just got so complicated for me. so my thoughts now are very confused and very scattered. i don't want to say that i don't ahve a relationship with God, but its not the best....and i feel that given my strong catholic background, and my family is soooo religios...that i should carry on the tradition...and when i have children i would like them to be catholic, and have a place to turn in hard times...belonging to the church just gives me sense of security...and i guess that is why i never really turned away, or lost my faith, just got sidetracked. but anyways i'm sure that you hear this all the time. confused people...yada yada. adios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gOOters November 18, 2003 Share gOOters Member November 18, 2003 thanks for all your responses. its nice to see different opinions, yet ones of faith. i tend to stear clear of posting in the spirituality and beyond forums. why? i don't know. i never really got that indepth about my faith before. maybe because it was shoved down my throat as a child/young adult? i have attended catholic schools my entire life. K-12. i use to be very active in the church, and very sure about my beliefs. things just got so complicated for me. so my thoughts now are very confused and very scattered. i don't want to say that i don't ahve a relationship with God, but its not the best....and i feel that given my strong catholic background, and my family is soooo religios...that i should carry on the tradition...and when i have children i would like them to be catholic, and have a place to turn in hard times...belonging to the church just gives me sense of security...and i guess that is why i never really turned away, or lost my faith, just got sidetracked. but anyways i'm sure that you hear this all the time. confused people...yada yada. adios ditto I know that I WANT to believe, I know that I once loved God deeply. Now I am struggling to find that again...for myself this time, not for others. I think I'll go say a prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa November 18, 2003 Share Playaa Member November 18, 2003 and I'll say a prayer for both of ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyFromHell`X November 18, 2003 Share CowboyFromHell`X Member November 18, 2003 maybe because it was shoved down my throat as a child/young adult? i have attended catholic schools my entire life. K-12. i use to be very active in the church, and very sure about my beliefs. things just got so complicated for me. Same here. I'm still an Atheist but I do like to get into in depth conversations about faith. It's fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyFromHell`X November 18, 2003 Share CowboyFromHell`X Member November 18, 2003 Cowboy, I think the part I struggle with is the "lean not on your own understanding..." This makes it difficult, especially cause there are two parts raging war in me. Auggy This is how I see it. What that means is to not make a decision without consulting God first. The understanding part is that if you believe in God, you'll know that what he feels is that you don't need to understand everything, but everything will go well if you just believe in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar November 18, 2003 Share Crowbar Member November 18, 2003 Exactly right, Watch, if the Bible was/is worth anything as a Plan and as the Word of God, it would have to be eternal, not something for a specific time. That is why I do take it literally and I do believe it's as valid today as it was 4000 years ago. And yes, you can read it front to back, though I would recommend starting with the New Testament first. Start at Mathew, read through Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans and keep reading if you're interested. The rest of the books in the New Testament are letters written (mostly by Paul) to various churches in cities around the Empire. The Old Testament can be incredibly boring (and some parts ARE for that specific time period, being obsolete because of Jesus's coming) and yet other parts are thrilling stories. If you find yourself getting very bored with a part, skip ahead a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy November 19, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member November 19, 2003 Watch, I agree with crow, start with new testament. But read Luke. Luke is so amazing if you really really study. Romans is another great one. Heak if you wanna really knock your socks off read revelation Knock, if you get a chance to see the movie Luther go see it. HEE HEE im trying to convert knock to protestant it is a really good movie. I certainly dont think catholics are bad but at some time in history just about every religion has done terrible things or taught crooked things. Some people think protestants are God's people yet its protestants who are on TV doing the SO CALLED FAKE HEALINGS and taking in MILLLLLLIIIOONNS of dollars. I liked the movie because like Jesus it brings you close to what matters whether your protestant or catholic, you'll appreciate what he stood for (loving people and God). He kinda reminds me of Keith Green. Again if anyone wants his music I'll gladly mail a copy of his stuff YOU"LL DIG IT. Well if you like elton John this guy was right there on equal ground with Elton, and I love to write music so I'm not just saying that. He really was an aswome song writer. Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar November 19, 2003 Share Crowbar Member November 19, 2003 lol auggy, you know, there have been good Christian artists since the early 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy November 19, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member November 19, 2003 Since the 80's theres only a few. Switchfoot? Sixpence? thats about the only ones i can think of Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane November 20, 2003 Share jane Member November 20, 2003 project 86, blindside, stavesacre, stretcharmstrong, strongarm, probably ones you havent heard of auggy(since youre old and married! ) lol gg guys thanks for the question knock. Good one too. I already answered it, so I wont go for it a second time. I would like to say that faith(a step further from religion) is something I think you should really look into. I think you already said you have faith. Welcome to the family. I'm pleased you feel free to pose questions in forums. Crowbar and Auggybendoggy are a bit more frequent here, but they answer Watchtowers questions quite readily. Feel free to ask away more as they come up. I'll be here and I know auggy will to... lol isnt this his life? jane | gfe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwEEziL November 20, 2003 Share dwEEziL Member November 20, 2003 A pretty cool band is Calibretto (used to be Calibretto 13 under the "Tooth and Nail" record label but they went out on their own). The front man, Joseph Whiteford is a friend of mine. Some of the songs might offend at first listen but he has a great heart for the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy November 20, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member November 20, 2003 I've only heard of some of the bands but I can say that from listening to christian radio for quite some time. It's absurd to say that anyone (except for keith green) from the christian arena has proven to be a talent near the likes of elton john or john lennon. Chances are these bands are fairly good but someone will have to put out like 30 no. 1 hits in order to prove this. While Kieth didn't do 30 no. 1's he certainly took the market by storm for 2 reasons, NO COMPROMISE, and AWSOME SONG WRITING. Micheal W. Smith.....NOT! Rich Mullens....NOT! Jars of Clay....NOT! Were talking awsome musicians like Robert Smith (the cure), James hetfield (metallica), Miles Hunt (Wonderstuff), Elton and lennon and mcartney, barry gibb...and the list goes on. I have not heard anyone step up to the plate like these secular artists. These are real bands, not like audio adrenaline. It's like comparing Christian movies to secular. Sorry guys the church just doesnt have it. The church usually has sorry song writing or sorry directing. And dont you dare try to put lavern trip (tbn singer with the large white afro) in the same group with elton john either! OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyFromHell`X November 21, 2003 Share CowboyFromHell`X Member November 21, 2003 One I guess "spiritual" band I like is Eternal Decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower November 21, 2003 Share Watchtower Member November 21, 2003 Check out Phil Keggy of Glass Harp.. Phenominal guitarist.. Kinda old school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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