dwEEziL October 5, 2003 Share dwEEziL Member October 5, 2003 Actually, that's Linkovich Chumovsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy October 5, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member October 5, 2003 Neanderthals(the species) became extinct? Like many other thousands of species that once lived? There's only room on the planet and in our ecosystem for so many beings.. Oh wait! Playaa works with one! His name isn't Link is it?? If neandrethals became extince then there should be no low level monkeys. they should have been extinct too. If it is survival of the fittest then seems monkeys are an exception to the rule and they are proving survival of the weakest. If they survived then why not others? again no reasonable answer. But since Watchtower is way better than me at CS I will rephrase my statement to. Thats the best answer I've ever heard on this matter though it does not satisfy me. PLEASE don't kill me so fast watch! Auggybendoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX October 5, 2003 Share NOFX Member October 5, 2003 (edited) Im sure there is many definitions for evolution, but the one we was taught in biology was "change over time" So i can see these short necked giraffes moving around the continent over millions of years, going to new climates etc, etc.... adapting to somethign else, then they adapt to another and another and another and another, then they start not looking like a giraffe. While their ancestors "the short neck giraffe" that never left home and his climate didnt change, he looks the same. Now that is why we still have apes for the people who dont understand why apes are still here if we evolved from them. the short neck giraffe is your monkey, we are the very last thing to adapt, not ever creature in those in between steps survived.... Edited October 5, 2003 by NOFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 5, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 5, 2003 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...nzees.html#main "Historically, the philosophy behind how we group organisms was flawed," said Goodman. Starting with Aristotle in ancient Greece, species have been grouped according to their "degree of perfection," with man as the pinnacle. This "anthropocentric," or human-centered, view led to "exaggeration of the differences between humans and their relatives," he said, noting that his study gives "an objective view of man's place in the kingdom of life." Also keep in mind that there are many other cases where the animal hasn't evolved much in millions of years. There is no need to. They have become as efficient as necessary to survive in the form they are in. ie; Crocodiles and Snakes. The process of evlolving is happening right now. We have only witness the events intelligently for a few hundred years. People and civilization are evolving at a pretty rapid pace. We are very abundant. Many genes flying around these days. And we can grasp the workings of it from a very narrow view. Again we are just scrathing the surface.... http://www.research.ukans.edu/explore/v1n2...n2/neander.html Another very insightfull webpage talking about neanderthal and their english ancestors.. "It's called mitochondrial DNA, and its job is to produce energy for use by the cell. Splitters would say that the mitochondrial DNA extracted from Neanderthal remains and examined by scientists is, on average, quite different from contemporary DNA. As a good lumper, Frayer retorts, "There are humans alive today who, in terms of their mitochondrial DNA, are more different from each other than the Neanderthals were from modern humans." " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 5, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 5, 2003 Why are tribes in Africa still throwing spears and Aboriginies still throwing Boomerangs? Because modern man hasn't chosen to wipe them out yet. I just thought of that so I figured I'd post it.. ANd I'm gonna kill u lots Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gOOters October 5, 2003 Share gOOters Member October 5, 2003 Are you suggesting that native African tribes and Aborigines are a different species or less than human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 5, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 5, 2003 Not less human. Very different from us. "The critics argue that the small stature, the frizzy hair and other apparent Negrito characteristics that Tindale and Birdsell observed in North Queensland can be readily explained not by separate origins but by local evolution." taken from http://www.sydneyline.com/Pygmies%20Extinction.htm Basically answering auggies question As to why there are no more Neanderthals. There is still primitive man living with us today.. Maybe not neanderthals.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight October 6, 2003 Share White Knight Member October 6, 2003 True, but that is mutation and adaptation within a species....not development from one species into another. We could still mate with them and produce offspring. Therefore they are the same species, instead of an earlier version of us. In fact, the characteristics that make them 'different' from us are likely adaptation to make them better fit to succeed in their own environment and would give them advantages over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gOOters October 6, 2003 Share gOOters Member October 6, 2003 Yeah...you have no idea how much I eat...enough for about 20 pygmies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight October 6, 2003 Share White Knight Member October 6, 2003 Yeah...you have no idea how much I eat...enough for about 20 pygmies. Is that an adaptation that gives you more survivability in our environment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX October 6, 2003 Share NOFX Member October 6, 2003 probably....Think of all the things you have adapted to. I used to hate cigarettes, make my eyes water and my nose stopped up. I dont smoke, but I have lived with all roomates who do for the past 3/4 years and now I dont even notice the cigarettes or the smell when i walk into my smokey apartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight October 6, 2003 Share White Knight Member October 6, 2003 Nobody here is argueing against about adaptation whether within a species or a mountain or a cigarette. The discussion relates to "Evolution of Species". The fact that Gooters can still mate with the pygme chicks from that Island in New Guinue is another example of how we AREN'T related to monkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 7, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 7, 2003 Right, and i'm also saying that Homo Sapien Sapien gained an advantage at some point and possibly helped eradicate the other remaining hominid species.. I used those examples to broaden our scope of what we see as "human beings". Showing how us different humans may have possibly had different ancestors and that we didn't all evolve from 1 set of caucasians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy October 7, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member October 7, 2003 I agree totally with White knigt. Adaptation is absolute. The short neck girrafe adapted but did not turn into a short neck osterich. The fact that many people live in different places on earth in different enviroments should provide enough room for Neandrethals to exist today. If monkeys exist at a low level still then shouldn't Neandrethals? After all Nthals are a higher form of a monkey yet the monkey out smarted them? Did the monkeys overpower them? Perhaps we killed them but left the monkeys alone? Any yet my point is not settled here because there would still be more than 3 levels of species (monkey, Nthals, Man) but what about inbetweens. The fact that you have Monkey----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Man with nothing in the middle (espcecially Nthals) provides much doubt that Man devoloped from monkeys. Evolution is an ongoing real time event to my knowledge. So why the necessary explosions? Ah again punctual equilibrium. I don't buy it. ps watch, when I get better you better change your name to Watchmedie! Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight October 7, 2003 Share White Knight Member October 7, 2003 Ah again punctual equilibrium. I don't buy it. I don't either. In fact, I think that Punctual Equilibrium is one of the silliest idea to come out of Global Scientifica. Next thing you know, they'll be sugguesting that Space Aliens came and differentiated us from Monkeys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaa October 8, 2003 Share Playaa Member October 8, 2003 people already do believe that if you're interested you should check out ancient Assyrian writings and culture.....(also known as Syria). They have some stories that have lead modern day authors to expound and create fiction about the beginning of our race (humans) and how we were genetic manipulations done by aliens as a test. I don't believe it but I still think it's a really interesting idea and fun to read stories about. They (the current authors) even go so far as to include things from the Bible to "prove" thier ideas (the reason I say "prove" in quotes is beceause even these authors have stated they don't believe what they're writing....it's only fiction). The stories are mainly about 2 brothers, 1 law enforcer and 1 geneticist....ever notice how throughout time 2 brothers have come up quite often? Cain and Abel, Romulus and Remus (they equate Jesus and the AntiChrist as well). yeah...that was totally off topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy October 9, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member October 9, 2003 Playya, have you ever heard of zacharia sitchen? He writes all kinds of books on that subject. I read one years ago and it was all BUNK! That dude is just whack. I never read Whitley striebers stuff but I saw the movie and all I can say is that Christopher Walken is the best actor in the world. What do you think of that Watchtower? Auggybendoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 9, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 9, 2003 Any yet my point is not settled here because there would still be more than 3 levels of species (monkey, Nthals, Man) but what about inbetweens. The fact that you haveMonkey----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Man with nothing in the middle (espcecially Nthals) provides much doubt that Man devoloped from monkeys. Evolution is an ongoing real time event to my knowledge. So why the necessary explosions? Ah again punctual equilibrium. I don't buy it. ps watch, when I get better you better change your name to Watchmedie! Auggy No punctual Equilibrium crap. Have you not looked at the links that I've posted? Very many different forms of "man". Some more "monkey-like" than others. The reason I keep bringing up Neanderthal is they were the most recent and everyone recognizes them as fact. Its definitely not Monkey------Neanderthal-------Us. Whoever said that anyway? http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Scienc...inidSpecies.htm I encourage you to click this link then go through some of the website... Again, we are just scratching the surface. The earth is a few billion years old.. Our oldest fossils(of man) are dating to a few Million years. We have no idea what was happening before that.. Well we do, but no scientific proof. Someday we might as we keep digging. Nothing looks like an explosion to me.. A very steady and gradual timeline to get to where we are today. Please don't post before you click that link I just posted.. Please? I also don't know how ppl keep saying stuff about this "1 jaw bone" crap. There are many COMPLETE SKELETONS. Also remember the earth at one point was not made of 7 different continents but one large one. Pangea. Realizing this makes it a bit easier to imagine how one race may have wiped another out.. Instead of hopping across oceans, they just migrated north, south or anywhere in between. Read link. Post. P.S. Walken creeps me out.. And I heard he smells bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX October 10, 2003 Share NOFX Member October 10, 2003 yea but pangea was broken up quite a bit when humans first came around....I like how that webpage shows that its not a straight line of evolution....how some exisist at the same time as others..and how they both evenutally die about, but the surviving ancestors only take after one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy October 10, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member October 10, 2003 ok watch i read all the links. I'm not sure what they prove except to say man as we know it (homo-sapien sapien) was around 130,000 years ago. I still have 2 major problems regardless of all the fossils. 1) if man as we know it was around 130,000 years ago how come complex laungages and writing only exist like 12,000 starting with sumer, assyrian, jewish, and mayan. It seems they would have been well advanced by 10,000 years ago than wearing fig leaves or cow skins to cover themselves. Where are the ancient 10,000 year old sewing machines. The 10,000 year old Fod Model T's. I don't find it hard to believe that in 10-12,000 years we can now fly large pieces of metal from continent to continenet. I find it hard to believe that we only do that after 130,000 years. So where do you think we will be scientifically in 100,000 years from now (assuming man is around and doesnt nuke himself to oblivion)? I tend to think man has not been that smart except a few thousand before the basic hyroglyphics were being used. 2) If man was around 130,000 years ago then shouldn't population be off the charts? Just a thought 3) Still yet why are there no survivors of any of the inbetweens. I know someone mentioned pigmys. I don't think theyre some neandrethal or homo cro magnum sapien erectus lopithicus. Were talking millions of years yet no survivors. And all around the world. another question to ponder. Whats with Chineese eyes. Is it real foggy out there that they have to squint to see far so they evoloved into a slanted eye race? Sounds kinda lame huh? Or perhpas other continents were too hot so other races (non african) lighted the skin so they woud'nt absorb too much heat. again sounds lame. Whats with that. So we might say the different races are the advanced stages of many different species evolved. So they did not kill off eachother then. I dont know bro, Im all confused... I've got a feeling that if the weather man cant tell me next year on th is day what the weather will be like then there aint no way in hell hes gonna look back and tell me what life was like 1,000,000 years ago. Auggygonnagetyoubendoggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 10, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 10, 2003 Ancient tools have been found.. Bones honed into hooks used for sewing, fishing, medical purposes? Sewing machine no, but other slightly complicated tools yes. The intelligence and language boom came from what I think is the need to communicate more complex ideas.. Before a few thousand years, we had no reason to draw out complicated sentences and thoughts. we had very basic needs and roles.. Hunting, gathering and existing.. Then trade came along. Being the thinkers that we are, we started devising methods to communicate universally. Monetary units like stones, gems, minerals. I think it really all started with electricity.. Until then we were pretty much in the dark.. Heck, 400 years ago(drop in the bucket) we didn't even know how we got sick and no knowledge of micro-organisms until the microscope came along. http://inventors.about.com/library/invento...lmicroscope.htm THe "dark ages" were just that.. TV only 50 years old.. 1 idea compounds another and we are now advancing at an exponential rate.. Before those first few discoveries and theorems, we had no reason to ponder the more complicated things happening to us. We blamed it on the God(s). Once we did realize we could figure some stuff out, some of us concentrated on that. Boom here we are.. If you are truely interested in answering your questions, you could do a pretty good job of it by investigating the origins of technology on the internet.. Advancement of man. MAny other topics you could look up and read about.. Most of this post is my educated guess. I could probably find some evidence to support these statements if you wish.. i think it's pretty obvious Why we are where we are at this point in time and how we got here.. I'm going to try to delve into the fig leaf thing when I get home I love this topic btw.. ANd hey! You killed me a couple times last night! You are Evolving into quite the CS player! lol. Before you know it, yer gonna be growing a kevlar helmet and a colt from your right hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy October 10, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member October 10, 2003 Did you hear that everyone Watchtower was kissing the floor from my cheap mug Glock. Ok, Ok, so it probably was the round when I bought the 5000 machine gun. I am getting better Watch. Im learning to aim for the head and I'm not getting so scared when I run into opposition. I still have the tendancy to go the other way when I see the enemy though....Kind of like david and goliath only I'm not so brave Watch, To be honest I won't look up all the info on the advancement of man. If you are correct about man to monkey I would still believe God's hand was in it. I'm like the biggest liberal on the bible there is. You might call me a heretic Just to make a point I rented The Last Temptation of Christ. That means I'm a heretic according to conservatives. Heak the reason I wrote on this forum was this thread, because I do doubt many points of the conservative. I don't think my doubt is so much in God but rather in man. I know I doubt God but to hear sermons that are so dogmatic about how we should all live gets a bit old. I think Jesus and Paul said it best. LOVE OTHERS AS MUCH AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF, LOVE THE LORD GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, THE LAW IS SUMMED UP IN A SINGLE COMMAND LOVE ONE ANOTHER. It's not that hard to recognize that WE ALL have a problem with this. We hate and get angry, We greed and don't share. We beg for mercy from God but condemn everyone we don't approve of. So with that said It's not that I don't want to hear your thoughts I do. I just don't want to spend time looking up stuff I think I will find no answer on. I have a newbord (our first) Emma Jean and I'm trying to play as big a part as momma feeding and staying up with her. It's great but its hard. Please post up any info you like so we can read it here thats faster and easier. Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 10, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 10, 2003 Congrats! And I'm not saying a "God" didn't have a hand in things.. i'm just saying how I think it may have happened.. I don't dispell the notion of a higher being. I dispell the notion of Man was created and then everything after. it just didn't happen that way sorry. And when I say research it's because what you question is out there.. Like how we came to where we are technologically. We have computers working for u now. Ever since we've had that grace, this have just been happening exponentially. <-- I like that word before electricity and and all the new age stuff, we were still in the dark and just beginning with alot of this. Like flight for example.. Medicine(acting as god?) and space exploration.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auggybendoggy October 11, 2003 Share auggybendoggy Member October 11, 2003 I understand but you dont find it funny that it took 130,000 years to figure it out. I mean from assyria to Midevil (before electricity) you had some major learning still. Ships from continent to continent, higher math, Bridges over rivers and canyons. Seems like 130,000 years is a bit too long to say men stayed stupid for 120,000 years then got smart. Mans nature has always been greed. So someone should have not only invented the wheel but sold it to make a bill gates fortune. I'm not saying I don't believe Man was literally created formed as a man. But I won't shoot theisitic evolution down either. I just dont know about these things. Also I know theres alot of information out there but don't have assurance that its all accurate or phony. Also there are scriptures that imply dont believe everything you see. That makes it even tuffer. Like in Corinth concerening the anti christ. Since they refused to love the truth, God will send a dillusion so strong they will believe the lie. So I just trust in the Grace and Love and mercy of God. Auggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchtower October 11, 2003 Share Watchtower Member October 11, 2003 http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/habitat/ <-- shows mans advancement over millions of years regarding habitats.. http://www.bergen.org/technology/ <--- showing how man advanced through the ages as far as technology.. basic but noteworthy.. Not all men have a nature of greed.. There are still people that live simply and peacefully. Amish, Native Americans, Eskimos, Tribal Africans.. THey chose not to advance as the rest of the population. They found what suited them and that is good enough. Capitalism is relatively new in mass form.. http://www.americanscientist.org/template/...O?fulltext=true <-- origins of language.. You know chimps and apes can communicate with us with sign language? divine? Very lengthy, I'd recommend skimming. Not sure of my views on this.. Speech is a highly complex process.. Probably started with gestures and vocalizations like "oww" and "ahhh" and "Ooooo" Purely speculation. We know from the fossil record which of the primates were probably capable of speech. http://www.apologeticspress.org/docsdis/20...01/dc-01-11.htm <-- a better website regarding the origins of speech.. Still some questions to be answered but a little more condensed that that last link Getting sleepy *grunt. *gurgle.. *groan *sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now