Macbook Air

[aldan]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

[shoot]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

To answer your questions... Not because I'm a fanboy, but just to give you a different point of view.

 

1) Gotta pay for style, right? You would pay more for well designed product wouldn't you? I'm sure you wear name brand stuff that cost way more than your inner "thrifty" aidan will allow. I'm sure a square, ugly Mac can be made, but would you want that? Wait... Don't answer that.

 

2) As far as notebooks go... How do you really upgrade a Windows notebook, other than memory and HDD? (except the few notebooks that have upgradable video) Macbooks can be upgraded for memory and HDD. For the Desktops... You're right about the limited upgradeability when it comes to different components, but having to buy a computer more often because of this is not true. Most components that Apple use are top tier stuff so obsoleteness is less likely and this, partly, explains the higher price.

 

3) This is why Apple is able to churn out great products with high profit. Wouldn't you want that if it was your company?

 

4) Anybody can make software for OS X and it's not more expensive that Windows software. MS Office is about the same price for OS X and Windows, for example. And yes, Macs can run Windows and all it's softwares (hardware not limiting). Issue about not making it vice versa... Once again would you let this happen if it was your own company?

Edited May 16, 2008 by shoot

[dwEEziL]

10' pole ftw!

dweezil? this has your name all over it.

 

shoot, I can pencil you in for a Thursday night in 3 weeks. Does that work? After that, I'm booked through summer.

Edited May 16, 2008 by dwEEziL

[shoot]

10' pole ftw!

dweezil? this has your name all over it.

 

shoot, I can pencil you in for a Thursday night in 3 weeks. Does that work? After that, I'm booked through summer.

 

 

Hmm... how does no sound

[dwEEziL]

/me shrugs..."Your loss"

[[LaW]Maverick]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

To answer your questions... Not because I'm a fanboy, but just to give you a different point of view.

 

1) Gotta pay for style, right? You would pay more for well designed product wouldn't you? I'm sure you wear name brand stuff that cost way more than your inner "thrifty" aidan will allow. I'm sure a square, ugly Mac can be made, but would you want that? Wait... Don't answer that.

 

2) As far as notebooks go... How do you really upgrade a Windows notebook, other than memory and HDD? (except the few notebooks that have upgradable video) Macbooks can be upgraded for memory and HDD. For the Desktops... You're right about the limited upgradeability when it comes to different components, but having to buy a computer more often because of this is not true. Most components that Apple use are top tier stuff so obsoleteness is less likely and this, partly, explains the higher price.

 

3) This is why Apple is able to churn out great products with high profit. Wouldn't you want that if it was your company?

 

4) Anybody can make software for OS X and it's not more expensive that Windows software. MS Office is about the same price for OS X and Windows, for example. And yes, Macs can run Windows and all it's softwares (hardware not limiting). Issue about not making it vice versa... Once again would you let this happen if it was your own company?

 

I love numbers, I can't resist

 

1.) you have a point: if style is your thing, good for you. However, I think Macs look tacky as all get out, which just points out that everyone has different taste, and that's a good thing

 

2.) also a good point, but I don't need a screw-driver to pop out my battery and put my spare in on my windows laptop either. Also, Mac uses very similar components to that which you'd find in a top-o-the-line PC..in fact, they use mostly the SAME components (i.e. Core 2 Duo). But since Mac is so proprietary, they tend to NOT have some of the high-end things PC's have. Generally, when a brand new graphics card comes out (back when the 8800 GTX launched, for instance) Mac drivers don't exist for it so Macs don't come with them. In other words, it's a common misconceptions that Macs come with higher-end hardware, because they don't. Sometimes, however, Windows based laptops can cost even more than high-end Macs (such as Alienware and Voodoo PC) so you're not ALWAYS paying more for the Mac

 

3.) Monopoly's are illegal...just because you don't have enough of the market-share to be considered one doesn't mean you should TRY to be one either. Macs are overpriced because of this very reason.

 

4.) Um...I'm fine with 4 really.

 

Oh, and on my fanboy rant...again, I wasn't saying one fanboy was worse than another--my point was that ALL fanboys can be bad..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

[shoot]

..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

 

 

You missed the most important comment Maverick... Personal preference. I use both PC and Mac. Rather not live without one or the other.

 

 

 

btw about the 10' pole - Couldn't help but feel a tingling on the back of my head and I saw - 10'pole.

 

Quit the witchcraft!

[Playaa]

Reference sake about #4. Macs actually come with the necessary software to program them built into the OS. Sure it's not quite as powerful or hefty as Visual Studio but XCode is all you need to program any app you want for OS X.

[[LaW]Maverick]

 

..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

 

 

You missed the most important comment Maverick... Personal preference. I use both PC and Mac. Rather not live without one or the other.

 

 

 

btw about the 10' pole - Couldn't help but feel a tingling on the back of my head and I saw - 10'pole.

 

Quit the witchcraft!

Oh, I wouldn't have it any other way--it's important that we all go with what we like (as long as it's not COMPLETELY dumb) so we have some diversity--otherwise the world would be quite boring

[dragonfly]

lol

 

You guys still debate this stuff? It was just a funny commercial...

[shoot]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

To answer your questions... Not because I'm a fanboy, but just to give you a different point of view.

 

1) Gotta pay for style, right? You would pay more for well designed product wouldn't you? I'm sure you wear name brand stuff that cost way more than your inner "thrifty" aidan will allow. I'm sure a square, ugly Mac can be made, but would you want that? Wait... Don't answer that.

 

2) As far as notebooks go... How do you really upgrade a Windows notebook, other than memory and HDD? (except the few notebooks that have upgradable video) Macbooks can be upgraded for memory and HDD. For the Desktops... You're right about the limited upgradeability when it comes to different components, but having to buy a computer more often because of this is not true. Most components that Apple use are top tier stuff so obsoleteness is less likely and this, partly, explains the higher price.

 

3) This is why Apple is able to churn out great products with high profit. Wouldn't you want that if it was your company?

 

4) Anybody can make software for OS X and it's not more expensive that Windows software. MS Office is about the same price for OS X and Windows, for example. And yes, Macs can run Windows and all it's softwares (hardware not limiting). Issue about not making it vice versa... Once again would you let this happen if it was your own company?

 

I love numbers, I can't resist

 

1.) you have a point: if style is your thing, good for you. However, I think Macs look tacky as all get out, which just points out that everyone has different taste, and that's a good thing

 

2.) also a good point, but I don't need a screw-driver to pop out my battery and put my spare in on my windows laptop either. Also, Mac uses very similar components to that which you'd find in a top-o-the-line PC..in fact, they use mostly the SAME components (i.e. Core 2 Duo). But since Mac is so proprietary, they tend to NOT have some of the high-end things PC's have. Generally, when a brand new graphics card comes out (back when the 8800 GTX launched, for instance) Mac drivers don't exist for it so Macs don't come with them. In other words, it's a common misconceptions that Macs come with higher-end hardware, because they don't. Sometimes, however, Windows based laptops can cost even more than high-end Macs (such as Alienware and Voodoo PC) so you're not ALWAYS paying more for the Mac

 

3.) Monopoly's are illegal...just because you don't have enough of the market-share to be considered one doesn't mean you should TRY to be one either. Macs are overpriced because of this very reason.

 

4.) Um...I'm fine with 4 really.

 

Oh, and on my fanboy rant...again, I wasn't saying one fanboy was worse than another--my point was that ALL fanboys can be bad..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

 

 

 

Can't help it either...

 

1) It's like clothing... you wear what you wear because it looks good to you. They're selling like hot cakes so many people must like the "Apple style"

 

2) If you look at the PC market as a whole, Mac tend to be in the upper tier when it comes to components and technology (processor - usually Apple is the first ones to get the newest Intel). All Macs were C2D when the C2Ds started with PCs. I'm sure this is not the case with "every" new tech, but the pattern is there.

 

3) How is this Monopoly? It's just a different variant of a technology and not the technology itself. Are you telling me that Apple is the only technology for computing? This is not monopoly. About Apple being over-priced: Something can not be "overpriced" and sell well. If it sells well and can not keep in stock, then it's priced right. People must think it's reasonably priced for it to sell all they can make. When did you ever see Macs go on sale? What you're willing to pay is far different than what it's market value is. Market value = what people are willing to pay for at any given moment.

Mac sales growth

 

4) I'm fine that you're fine...

[farmerisme]

I like stale twizzlers.

[LoveForPriscillaChan]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

To answer your questions... Not because I'm a fanboy, but just to give you a different point of view.

 

1) Gotta pay for style, right? You would pay more for well designed product wouldn't you? I'm sure you wear name brand stuff that cost way more than your inner "thrifty" aidan will allow. I'm sure a square, ugly Mac can be made, but would you want that? Wait... Don't answer that.

 

2) As far as notebooks go... How do you really upgrade a Windows notebook, other than memory and HDD? (except the few notebooks that have upgradable video) Macbooks can be upgraded for memory and HDD. For the Desktops... You're right about the limited upgradeability when it comes to different components, but having to buy a computer more often because of this is not true. Most components that Apple use are top tier stuff so obsoleteness is less likely and this, partly, explains the higher price.

 

3) This is why Apple is able to churn out great products with high profit. Wouldn't you want that if it was your company?

 

4) Anybody can make software for OS X and it's not more expensive that Windows software. MS Office is about the same price for OS X and Windows, for example. And yes, Macs can run Windows and all it's softwares (hardware not limiting). Issue about not making it vice versa... Once again would you let this happen if it was your own company?

 

I love numbers, I can't resist

 

1.) you have a point: if style is your thing, good for you. However, I think Macs look tacky as all get out, which just points out that everyone has different taste, and that's a good thing

 

2.) also a good point, but I don't need a screw-driver to pop out my battery and put my spare in on my windows laptop either. Also, Mac uses very similar components to that which you'd find in a top-o-the-line PC..in fact, they use mostly the SAME components (i.e. Core 2 Duo). But since Mac is so proprietary, they tend to NOT have some of the high-end things PC's have. Generally, when a brand new graphics card comes out (back when the 8800 GTX launched, for instance) Mac drivers don't exist for it so Macs don't come with them. In other words, it's a common misconceptions that Macs come with higher-end hardware, because they don't. Sometimes, however, Windows based laptops can cost even more than high-end Macs (such as Alienware and Voodoo PC) so you're not ALWAYS paying more for the Mac

 

3.) Monopoly's are illegal...just because you don't have enough of the market-share to be considered one doesn't mean you should TRY to be one either. Macs are overpriced because of this very reason.

 

4.) Um...I'm fine with 4 really.

 

Oh, and on my fanboy rant...again, I wasn't saying one fanboy was worse than another--my point was that ALL fanboys can be bad..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

 

 

 

Can't help it either...

 

1) It's like clothing... you wear what you wear because it looks good to you. They're selling like hot cakes so many people must like the "Apple style"

 

2) If you look at the PC market as a whole, Mac tend to be in the upper tier when it comes to components and technology (processor - usually Apple is the first ones to get the newest Intel). All Macs were C2D when the C2Ds started with PCs. I'm sure this is not the case with "every" new tech, but the pattern is there.

 

3) How is this Monopoly? It's just a different variant of a technology and not the technology itself. Are you telling me that Apple is the only technology for computing? This is not monopoly. About Apple being over-priced: Something can not be "overpriced" and sell well. If it sells well and can not keep in stock, then it's priced right. People must think it's reasonably priced for it to sell all they can make. When did you ever see Macs go on sale? What you're willing to pay is far different than what it's market value is. Market value = what people are willing to pay for at any given moment.

Mac sales growth

 

4) I'm fine that you're fine...

 

this quoting business is getting out of hand

 

for #3, ask yourself this: If Microsoft did it, will the apple fanboys cry and scream monopoly? (i'm gonna answer this myself: yes)

 

a lot of criticisms that apple and its supporters brush off as trivial, if applied to ms, would take them to court

[[LaW]Maverick]

I like stale twizzlers.

 

I prefer mine fresh! Let the debate begin! Mwa ha ha ha!

[dwEEziL]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

To answer your questions... Not because I'm a fanboy, but just to give you a different point of view.

 

1) Gotta pay for style, right? You would pay more for well designed product wouldn't you? I'm sure you wear name brand stuff that cost way more than your inner "thrifty" aidan will allow. I'm sure a square, ugly Mac can be made, but would you want that? Wait... Don't answer that.

 

2) As far as notebooks go... How do you really upgrade a Windows notebook, other than memory and HDD? (except the few notebooks that have upgradable video) Macbooks can be upgraded for memory and HDD. For the Desktops... You're right about the limited upgradeability when it comes to different components, but having to buy a computer more often because of this is not true. Most components that Apple use are top tier stuff so obsoleteness is less likely and this, partly, explains the higher price.

 

3) This is why Apple is able to churn out great products with high profit. Wouldn't you want that if it was your company?

 

4) Anybody can make software for OS X and it's not more expensive that Windows software. MS Office is about the same price for OS X and Windows, for example. And yes, Macs can run Windows and all it's softwares (hardware not limiting). Issue about not making it vice versa... Once again would you let this happen if it was your own company?

 

I love numbers, I can't resist

 

1.) you have a point: if style is your thing, good for you. However, I think Macs look tacky as all get out, which just points out that everyone has different taste, and that's a good thing

 

2.) also a good point, but I don't need a screw-driver to pop out my battery and put my spare in on my windows laptop either. Also, Mac uses very similar components to that which you'd find in a top-o-the-line PC..in fact, they use mostly the SAME components (i.e. Core 2 Duo). But since Mac is so proprietary, they tend to NOT have some of the high-end things PC's have. Generally, when a brand new graphics card comes out (back when the 8800 GTX launched, for instance) Mac drivers don't exist for it so Macs don't come with them. In other words, it's a common misconceptions that Macs come with higher-end hardware, because they don't. Sometimes, however, Windows based laptops can cost even more than high-end Macs (such as Alienware and Voodoo PC) so you're not ALWAYS paying more for the Mac

 

3.) Monopoly's are illegal...just because you don't have enough of the market-share to be considered one doesn't mean you should TRY to be one either. Macs are overpriced because of this very reason.

 

4.) Um...I'm fine with 4 really.

 

Oh, and on my fanboy rant...again, I wasn't saying one fanboy was worse than another--my point was that ALL fanboys can be bad..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

 

 

 

Can't help it either...

 

1) It's like clothing... you wear what you wear because it looks good to you. They're selling like hot cakes so many people must like the "Apple style"

 

2) If you look at the PC market as a whole, Mac tend to be in the upper tier when it comes to components and technology (processor - usually Apple is the first ones to get the newest Intel). All Macs were C2D when the C2Ds started with PCs. I'm sure this is not the case with "every" new tech, but the pattern is there.

 

3) How is this Monopoly? It's just a different variant of a technology and not the technology itself. Are you telling me that Apple is the only technology for computing? This is not monopoly. About Apple being over-priced: Something can not be "overpriced" and sell well. If it sells well and can not keep in stock, then it's priced right. People must think it's reasonably priced for it to sell all they can make. When did you ever see Macs go on sale? What you're willing to pay is far different than what it's market value is. Market value = what people are willing to pay for at any given moment.

Mac sales growth

 

4) I'm fine that you're fine...

 

this quoting business is getting out of hand

 

for #3, ask yourself this: If Microsoft did it, will the apple fanboys cry and scream monopoly? (i'm gonna answer this myself: yes)

 

a lot of criticisms that apple and its supporters brush off as trivial, if applied to ms, would take them to court

 

Agreed.

[boiler]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

To answer your questions... Not because I'm a fanboy, but just to give you a different point of view.

 

1) Gotta pay for style, right? You would pay more for well designed product wouldn't you? I'm sure you wear name brand stuff that cost way more than your inner "thrifty" aidan will allow. I'm sure a square, ugly Mac can be made, but would you want that? Wait... Don't answer that.

 

2) As far as notebooks go... How do you really upgrade a Windows notebook, other than memory and HDD? (except the few notebooks that have upgradable video) Macbooks can be upgraded for memory and HDD. For the Desktops... You're right about the limited upgradeability when it comes to different components, but having to buy a computer more often because of this is not true. Most components that Apple use are top tier stuff so obsoleteness is less likely and this, partly, explains the higher price.

 

3) This is why Apple is able to churn out great products with high profit. Wouldn't you want that if it was your company?

 

4) Anybody can make software for OS X and it's not more expensive that Windows software. MS Office is about the same price for OS X and Windows, for example. And yes, Macs can run Windows and all it's softwares (hardware not limiting). Issue about not making it vice versa... Once again would you let this happen if it was your own company?

 

I love numbers, I can't resist

 

1.) you have a point: if style is your thing, good for you. However, I think Macs look tacky as all get out, which just points out that everyone has different taste, and that's a good thing

 

2.) also a good point, but I don't need a screw-driver to pop out my battery and put my spare in on my windows laptop either. Also, Mac uses very similar components to that which you'd find in a top-o-the-line PC..in fact, they use mostly the SAME components (i.e. Core 2 Duo). But since Mac is so proprietary, they tend to NOT have some of the high-end things PC's have. Generally, when a brand new graphics card comes out (back when the 8800 GTX launched, for instance) Mac drivers don't exist for it so Macs don't come with them. In other words, it's a common misconceptions that Macs come with higher-end hardware, because they don't. Sometimes, however, Windows based laptops can cost even more than high-end Macs (such as Alienware and Voodoo PC) so you're not ALWAYS paying more for the Mac

 

3.) Monopoly's are illegal...just because you don't have enough of the market-share to be considered one doesn't mean you should TRY to be one either. Macs are overpriced because of this very reason.

 

4.) Um...I'm fine with 4 really.

 

Oh, and on my fanboy rant...again, I wasn't saying one fanboy was worse than another--my point was that ALL fanboys can be bad..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

 

 

 

Can't help it either...

 

1) It's like clothing... you wear what you wear because it looks good to you. They're selling like hot cakes so many people must like the "Apple style"

 

2) If you look at the PC market as a whole, Mac tend to be in the upper tier when it comes to components and technology (processor - usually Apple is the first ones to get the newest Intel). All Macs were C2D when the C2Ds started with PCs. I'm sure this is not the case with "every" new tech, but the pattern is there.

 

3) How is this Monopoly? It's just a different variant of a technology and not the technology itself. Are you telling me that Apple is the only technology for computing? This is not monopoly. About Apple being over-priced: Something can not be "overpriced" and sell well. If it sells well and can not keep in stock, then it's priced right. People must think it's reasonably priced for it to sell all they can make. When did you ever see Macs go on sale? What you're willing to pay is far different than what it's market value is. Market value = what people are willing to pay for at any given moment.

Mac sales growth

 

4) I'm fine that you're fine...

 

this quoting business is getting out of hand

 

for #3, ask yourself this: If Microsoft did it, will the apple fanboys cry and scream monopoly? (i'm gonna answer this myself: yes)

 

a lot of criticisms that apple and its supporters brush off as trivial, if applied to ms, would take them to court

 

Agreed.

You're not helping

 

 

...oh wait...

[dwEEziL]

My main problems with Apple products comes from the fact that they...

 

#1) Cost WAY too much money for what you get.

 

#2) Aren't really upgradeable, not the way that Win comps are, so you will often end up having to purchase a new one more often instead of occasionally having to upgrade a portion of the computer.

 

#3) Are too bleeding proprietary, meaning that they won't allow others to make a product that is compatible with theirs and uses their OS, which ties directly in with #1. If only one company (Ford as an example) had been allowed to build four wheeled automobiles, and had blocked off any and all other companies from being allowed to do the same, then what do you think would have happened?

 

#4) To go along with their proprietariness, they will only allow a very limited number of software companies to program for their OS, and those all have to have $$$$$$$$$$$$$BEAUCOUP BUCKAGE$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for it, so any programs that you want to buy for a Mac will tend to be more than a few dollars more costly than those for a Windows computer. Therefore, you have a much more limited number of programs available, you don't have the competition of various companies striving to overcome each other to get more customers to buy their products, and you also have Apple, who finally decided to (sort of) allow their OS to run Windows-based programs (but do they allow the vice versa??).

 

Now, am I a Windows fanboy? WHAT?!? You HAVE to be kidding me!! I've been using Windows for a long time, though I started with a Mac. However, even though I use it, that doesn't mean that I like it. It's rather like being able to afford only a crappy used car that has various problems, instead of owning a brand new Rolls Royce....

To answer your questions... Not because I'm a fanboy, but just to give you a different point of view.

 

1) Gotta pay for style, right? You would pay more for well designed product wouldn't you? I'm sure you wear name brand stuff that cost way more than your inner "thrifty" aidan will allow. I'm sure a square, ugly Mac can be made, but would you want that? Wait... Don't answer that.

 

2) As far as notebooks go... How do you really upgrade a Windows notebook, other than memory and HDD? (except the few notebooks that have upgradable video) Macbooks can be upgraded for memory and HDD. For the Desktops... You're right about the limited upgradeability when it comes to different components, but having to buy a computer more often because of this is not true. Most components that Apple use are top tier stuff so obsoleteness is less likely and this, partly, explains the higher price.

 

3) This is why Apple is able to churn out great products with high profit. Wouldn't you want that if it was your company?

 

4) Anybody can make software for OS X and it's not more expensive that Windows software. MS Office is about the same price for OS X and Windows, for example. And yes, Macs can run Windows and all it's softwares (hardware not limiting). Issue about not making it vice versa... Once again would you let this happen if it was your own company?

 

I love numbers, I can't resist

 

1.) you have a point: if style is your thing, good for you. However, I think Macs look tacky as all get out, which just points out that everyone has different taste, and that's a good thing

 

2.) also a good point, but I don't need a screw-driver to pop out my battery and put my spare in on my windows laptop either. Also, Mac uses very similar components to that which you'd find in a top-o-the-line PC..in fact, they use mostly the SAME components (i.e. Core 2 Duo). But since Mac is so proprietary, they tend to NOT have some of the high-end things PC's have. Generally, when a brand new graphics card comes out (back when the 8800 GTX launched, for instance) Mac drivers don't exist for it so Macs don't come with them. In other words, it's a common misconceptions that Macs come with higher-end hardware, because they don't. Sometimes, however, Windows based laptops can cost even more than high-end Macs (such as Alienware and Voodoo PC) so you're not ALWAYS paying more for the Mac

 

3.) Monopoly's are illegal...just because you don't have enough of the market-share to be considered one doesn't mean you should TRY to be one either. Macs are overpriced because of this very reason.

 

4.) Um...I'm fine with 4 really.

 

Oh, and on my fanboy rant...again, I wasn't saying one fanboy was worse than another--my point was that ALL fanboys can be bad..... and quit reading my mind with the 10' pole thing....lol

 

 

 

Can't help it either...

 

1) It's like clothing... you wear what you wear because it looks good to you. They're selling like hot cakes so many people must like the "Apple style"

 

2) If you look at the PC market as a whole, Mac tend to be in the upper tier when it comes to components and technology (processor - usually Apple is the first ones to get the newest Intel). All Macs were C2D when the C2Ds started with PCs. I'm sure this is not the case with "every" new tech, but the pattern is there.

 

3) How is this Monopoly? It's just a different variant of a technology and not the technology itself. Are you telling me that Apple is the only technology for computing? This is not monopoly. About Apple being over-priced: Something can not be "overpriced" and sell well. If it sells well and can not keep in stock, then it's priced right. People must think it's reasonably priced for it to sell all they can make. When did you ever see Macs go on sale? What you're willing to pay is far different than what it's market value is. Market value = what people are willing to pay for at any given moment.

Mac sales growth

 

4) I'm fine that you're fine...

 

this quoting business is getting out of hand

 

for #3, ask yourself this: If Microsoft did it, will the apple fanboys cry and scream monopoly? (i'm gonna answer this myself: yes)

 

a lot of criticisms that apple and its supporters brush off as trivial, if applied to ms, would take them to court

 

Agreed.

You're not helping

 

 

...oh wait...

 

My bad.

[anonymo]

See what you did Bewildered? See? Hope you're happy.

 

It's 7AM. Do you know where your Mac is?

[Playaa]

Cuddling with me.

[[LaW]Maverick]

that picture is hilarious!!

 

 

But boy does that bowling pin look SWEET!

[anonymo]

Cuddling with me.

Well good thing it doesn't run linux, or else you would have some serious laundry to do (not to mention bleeding to stop).

[Bewildered]

I know, and I wasn't even around on Friday when most of the fun started.

[NOFX]

You only use Apple products cuz they've proven they are superior? If all you use is Apple products...how do you know anymore?

 

Because I've only used Apple products for about 2 years now. The previous 10 years of my geek life were exclusively Windows-based products.

 

 

You seemed to have overlooked linux in the past few years, it's just now starting to shine

 

When it comes to Macs, I truly believe if you have any hardware/software knowledge at all and you buy a Mac, you are buying a fashion statement. One could have easily installed their favorite distro of linux on the machine and would have software to do everything they wanted.. for free.

 

apt-get install gimp

apt-get install audacious

apt-get install firefox

 

I don't suffer from fanyboyism because I use windows also. I could possibly suffer from using the most useful OS

 

EDIT* Also, what is all this software that you need to write code with Mac's and Windows? On linux, you can use your favorite text editor(emacs here) and on the command line just type make

Edited May 20, 2008 by NOFX

[Playaa]

You seemed to have overlooked linux in the past few years, it's just now starting to shine

Actually I have used Ubuntu and while I would highly recommend it to anyone who doesn't like Windows and has some computer knowledge, I can't recommend it to someone who wants something completely hassle free. Ubuntu was incredibly easy to set up...except for a few things. And once I got those working it's not always completely hassle-free to get certain programs. What every-day user wants to type a command into a command-line utility to install software?

Overall though I think Ubuntu is pretty awesome. (it's the only Linux distro I've used)

 

When it comes to Macs, I truly believe if you have any hardware/software knowledge at all and you buy a Mac, you are buying a fashion statement.

I'm not denying that a large draw to me was the fact that a Macbook Pro just looks amazing and is tiny when compared to other similar laptops. However, I am also one of those people that believe the package is important. For example my current work environment is drab and boring and has too many u.v. lights. It is harsh on the eyes and the chairs and desks are uncomfortable. This DOES effect my productivity levels and my overall happiness. When I pick up my Macbook Pro to do ANYTHING with it, the package is visually pleasing from the outside to the inside (OS X). That is something that is important. I bet you that if I put you in front of a fresh install of Windows XP and tell you that you have to use this PC for the next 3 months, one of the first things your going to want to do is customize it. You're going to put the icons where you usually have them, you're going to organize folders in a certain way, you're going to install programs that you want to use. You do all these things because the package IS important to you even if you won't admit it. It just so happens that I feel like Macs have the best package from the start. They are just as customizable as the other options too even if you feel like being stubborn about it. (it was a piece of cake to add new ram to my laptop, I can even change my hard drive if I feel like it...it would void my warranty just like on other laptops though) It's all about knowing which pieces of hardware work best together. Just because the knowledge is different from what you know doesn't mean the knowledge is wrong. For example it is obvious to you that you can't put a Pentium processor on a motherboard with Socket AM2. To someone who doesn't have that knowledge they might think it's "stupid" that all motherboards don't support all processors.

 

Yes, it's true that you do pay more for Macs than comparable pcs, but you're paying for a greater sense of stability and ease of maintenance. You also can't compare a Mac to a pc you can build yourself because the majority of the world has absolutely no idea how to do that. If you are comparing a Mac to a Dell or an HP you are spending slightly more (maybe $200) for INSANELY better customer support and a machine that has less junk, runs smoother and looks better.

 

To someone like you, that's probably not worth it. To someone who uses their computer just to browse the web or do work on (i.e. 99.999999% of the computing world) it is absolutely worth it.

 

Also, what is all this software that you need to write code with Mac's and Windows? On linux, you can use your favorite text editor(emacs here) and on the command line just type make

You can do that on OS X or Windows if you want. You're an elitist snob if you think it's the better way to go. As someone who has been in the corporate programming world for 8 years now and has used pre-built environments (Visual Studio, XCode) and text-editor/command line based environments, the ease of use I get out of the pre-built ones far outweighs the "freedom" I get with the less high-tech ones.

[Demoner]

You seemed to have overlooked linux in the past few years, it's just now starting to shine

Actually I have used Ubuntu and while I would highly recommend it to anyone who doesn't like Windows and has some computer knowledge, I can't recommend it to someone who wants something completely hassle free. Ubuntu was incredibly easy to set up...except for a few things. And once I got those working it's not always completely hassle-free to get certain programs. What every-day user wants to type a command into a command-line utility to install software?

Overall though I think Ubuntu is pretty awesome. (it's the only Linux distro I've used)

 

When it comes to Macs, I truly believe if you have any hardware/software knowledge at all and you buy a Mac, you are buying a fashion statement.

I'm not denying that a large draw to me was the fact that a Macbook Pro just looks amazing and is tiny when compared to other similar laptops. However, I am also one of those people that believe the package is important. For example my current work environment is drab and boring and has too many u.v. lights. It is harsh on the eyes and the chairs and desks are uncomfortable. This DOES effect my productivity levels and my overall happiness. When I pick up my Macbook Pro to do ANYTHING with it, the package is visually pleasing from the outside to the inside (OS X). That is something that is important. I bet you that if I put you in front of a fresh install of Windows XP and tell you that you have to use this PC for the next 3 months, one of the first things your going to want to do is customize it. You're going to put the icons where you usually have them, you're going to organize folders in a certain way, you're going to install programs that you want to use. You do all these things because the package IS important to you even if you won't admit it. It just so happens that I feel like Macs have the best package from the start. They are just as customizable as the other options too even if you feel like being stubborn about it. (it was a piece of cake to add new ram to my laptop, I can even change my hard drive if I feel like it...it would void my warranty just like on other laptops though) It's all about knowing which pieces of hardware work best together. Just because the knowledge is different from what you know doesn't mean the knowledge is wrong. For example it is obvious to you that you can't put a Pentium processor on a motherboard with Socket AM2. To someone who doesn't have that knowledge they might think it's "stupid" that all motherboards don't support all processors.

 

Yes, it's true that you do pay more for Macs than comparable pcs, but you're paying for a greater sense of stability and ease of maintenance. You also can't compare a Mac to a pc you can build yourself because the majority of the world has absolutely no idea how to do that. If you are comparing a Mac to a Dell or an HP you are spending slightly more (maybe $200) for INSANELY better customer support and a machine that has less junk, runs smoother and looks better.

 

To someone like you, that's probably not worth it. To someone who uses their computer just to browse the web or do work on (i.e. 99.999999% of the computing world) it is absolutely worth it.

 

Also, what is all this software that you need to write code with Mac's and Windows? On linux, you can use your favorite text editor(emacs here) and on the command line just type make

You can do that on OS X or Windows if you want. You're an elitist snob if you think it's the better way to go. As someone who has been in the corporate programming world for 8 years now and has used pre-built environments (Visual Studio, XCode) and text-editor/command line based environments, the ease of use I get out of the pre-built ones far outweighs the "freedom" I get with the less high-tech ones.

you sound too much like a fanboy there playaa. i understand some of your points, but some i completely disagree.

 

i don't understand how you can say you're getting such insanely better support from Mac compared to Dell or HP... Please explain more. Support wise now you can get pretty much equalivent from any windows based company to Mac as from as longevity and replacing hardware. I fail to see the better support.

 

Piece of cake to change my ram on my laptop too. 1 screw and boom I can add another stick of ram to my IBM!

 

I don't understand you Mac fanboys other than paying more than I do for the same thing!