10v10 Hunter Video

[JackieChan]

Yes. It's filtered ON the server so you don't need anything and that's why you can go through them at times.

[Fenix]

So I understand that in no way is this cheating, but I still believe its an exploit. Frankly, I don't feel like playing on the server if we are starting to promote this type of play-style on the server. Remember that little thread posted a while back about stuff in L4D2 that are all "exploits" (http://gamrs.co/forums/index.php?/topic/42918-server-exploits/)...like the wall climbing for survivors, or Smoker/hunter combos that result in insta-kill if performed right? IMO a hunter wall-pouncing from invisible boundaries of the map from 1000 feet in the air is just as exploitative as a survivor finding his way to the top of a staircase on the side of a building because they found small ledges to jump from.

 

I personally have not tried using any of those survivor exploits, but some of them are bannable if you try them, and some of them are very easy to perform, like the one where you can get on top of the train in No Mercy 2nd map. Then again some of them are very difficult to perform, but also bannable. Yet we will allow Hunters to pounce us from 1000 feet away? I know Jackie tends to concentrate more on survivor exploits than infected ones, but I think this should go on the list of infected exploits that go above and beyond the normal scope of play on this server.

 

As of right now, I am refusing to play while MurderinClony is on the server as I see it as an unfair advantage for his team.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Fenix

[JackieChan]

If you look at the patch notes Valve has done throughout the years, all the exploits that have been fixed were mostly all Survivor related because that's NOT where Survivors are intentionally supposed to go. These "invisible walls" are just brushes without a texture. If Infected (minus Hunters) jumped from platforms that didn't have a texture on it, is that considered an exploit because the ledge they jumped from didn't have a texture?

 

Clony isn't the only person to have done this. EVERY advanced Hunter player uses invisible walls as a means to get someplace they're not supposed to go or to a higher vantage point to pounce someone from. Ask every advanced Hunter player and every one of them will say that this is not an exploit.

 

Take this video for example of this L4D2 player:

 

He was a pro L4D2 player who played competitively when L4D2 still had a competitive scene. He used invisible walls for pouncing all the time. No one in the competitive scene ever had a problem with Hunters using invisible walls for high damage pounces.

[swatfishy]

most of the good hunter players are learning kai pouncing so im guessing you wont be on for a while...

 

 

edit jackie's vid oh my the dc barns lamppost jumping whaaaat

Edited November 13, 2013 by swatfishy

[MurderinClony]

Fenix, I am sorry for how you feel about this and sorry to hear that you won't be playing if I am on there, but I can't stop those pounces. Those brushes without a texture or with "nodraw" attached to them, are the main way in L4D2 for a hunter to do anything. In L4D2, with all the extra powerful weapons being added to compensate for the stronger infected, Charger and Jockey both having more health than the hunter or smoker, a hunter can be killed as soon as he gets a pounce where he does maybe 1 or 2 hits, adding up to a max of 10 damage. But with damage pounces you can do an instant 25 damage plus any extra damage I can deal out before I die, which in accordance to the 1 or 2 hits, would be max of 35. That is more desirable than 10.

Fun fact: The hunter can do the most damage on impact, even more than a tank punch.

The hunter is my favorite infected, and will always be because I played L4D1 first, where the best and most fun infected to play was the hunter. I'll just say this Fenix: To you, it may be unfair that I jump on this massive "invisible" walls, but when I am up there, I become silhouetted against the sky and easy to spot, I become an easy target to snipers, or people with good aim, because the farther away something is from a survivor, the less that survivor has to move his/her mouse to shoot that something, leading to more precise hits, where as when a hunter in amazingly close, it is very hard to hit him, because he moves so fast. When the hunter is very far away, although I am moving amazingly fast up that wall, to the survivors it looks like I am inching up the wall, they just point and click, and I am down. The AWP will kill me in one hit, as long as it doesn't hit my toenail.

[BlackYoshi]

I cant do it so its cheating

[TheDude]

I don't have a problem with it for two reasons:

It's really hard to do it, chances of succes are not high. I've maybe done it once or twice. Usually i think there are enough spots to get those 10 point or more pounces at and i don't want to waste time getting those two extra points climbing some invisible wall. I don't see it in any way as OP.

 

If you fail it doesn't necessarily hurt your team.

[tainted92]

I haven't posted in this thread so far because I had nothing really to say, the pounce video was a nice watch, but I've tried to do that, and I can't get the hang of it, so I was too lazy to post.

 

However, I have been reading, and I feel at this point, I should chip in with my two cents.

 

I do not think this is an exploit. Simple as, if Valve had wanted this to be dealt with, they would have dealt with it a damn sight sooner than now.

 

As of right now, I am refusing to play while MurderinClony is on the server as I see it as an unfair advantage for his team.

 

 

I have to admit, this made me laugh out loud. It just screams childish to me. If you had such a problem with him doing it, then sure, don't play while he's online. That is your choice. There was no need to publicly post that though. It shouts to me that "I'm going to throw a public tantrum in an attempt to make you change something that I don't agree with". He has as much right as you to play here as long as he follows the rules set down by the admins, and various admins and board members have said that it is not considered an exploit. What gives you the right to slam him in public like this for nothing more than a tactic that the admins and board members don't have a problem with? Stop playing while he's online if you wish, but don't slam him for something that he is allowed to do.

 

I don't think this topic of discussion needs any more than that. How about we just enjoy the video and watching Peanut get pounced repeatedly? I know I have that bit on loop for chuckling purposes! I just wish I'd seen Yoshi getting repeatedly pounced, it would have made my day

Edited November 13, 2013 by tainted92

[san`]

I do not think this is an exploit. Simple as, if Valve had wanted this to be dealt with, they would have dealt with it a damn sight sooner than now.

 

 

By this logic I should be able to glitch through the saferoom door and do the charger glitch whenever the hell I want because if Valve didn't want people doing it they'd blah blah blah blah blah.

[Jerkoff]

Arguments with how Valve intend to make things work for our server is highly irrelevant since this is a private server with our own gated community. We have our own rules, own style, mods that break the normal 4v4 situation and the list goes on. So it's silly to take Valve logic into this sort of thing at all, on the very least how their rules should affect us.

 

This is hardly an exploit considering you're exposing yourself 50 miles in the air with no coverage at all, with 20 eyes scanning every pebble and atom in the sky. Let's also add in the player sniping skills into that equation and you will find it to be more of a disadvantage. Want to know what's a real exploit? A smoker pulling from beneath the ground. Can't be anymore obvious than that.

 

Honestly this sort of "exploit" we're talking about here is impossible to monitor or reinforce. It's been there since the start of the game and have persist since then and ACCEPTED among the majority. Must we constantly bring up the 4v4 vanilla Valve games into this server?

 

And god damn it Fenix, just go and play campaigns only if you are this discontent with nearly everything on the server. If you haven't know about hunter invisible wall pounces before Clony posted a video about it, then you are setting up yourself with more complains down the road. Not playing in this server because of Clony is doing those pounces...hate to burst your bubble but all the skill hunters have been doing that since the birth of this server, the beginning of L4D2 and L4D1.

 

Would you look at that, Clony's impressive video has become a justice league meeting. Anyway I will be coming back to the server tonight and murder..the murderinclony.

[Baloosh]

Having Fenix not on the Server moaning and whining all the time might not necessarily be a bad thing.

 

Just sayin...

[chick82]

Okay well I was going to post then I wanted to wait and see what people said and then it just blew up like a bomb.

 

I will admit when I first saw the video I thought "now that doesn't seem right". And I wanted to see what Jackie thought bc he's been around in 1&2 so he'd have an opinion.

 

Now I wasn't a fan of the first response, I was still kinda of on the exploit side and so I waited. And started talking to people. I found out a LOT of people who are remarkable with hunters use it even pre clony posting. My husband being one of those.

 

Still in the mindset it seemed like an exploit Jackie said people used it in competetive. I don't care about the whole "valve will fix it" I just don't buy that bc it's taken years to fix things and some are still there. Anyway, back to the competetive, I can promise you if it was a real exploit they wouldn't allow it.

 

That being said, it is annoying both that I can't do it bc I have no skill, and 2 that's brutal when the good hunters are on lol.

 

 

Don't bash Fenix for his personal feelings, we are all entitled to them. We won't always agree but that doesn't mean to insult him either.

 

 

Tl:dr: thought it was exploiting until I read everyone's responses and talked to people, changed my mind.

 

And be respectful of others opinions, you may not agree but you can't insult them either

[JackieChan]

I also kind of see it as "I'm not good enough at using a Hunter to do this kind of crazy stuff, so it must be an exploit."

 

I can teach people on how to be good Hunters too if they want me to. We do have the test server for dinking around in outside of plugin testing.

[MurderinClony]

I haven't seen Jackie pounce before, since I have never played with him, so I wouldn't know if he is good or not, but I also wouldn't mind teaching people "how to hunter," if you want to see how something is done, I can show you and work with you.

[MPG1770]

Using invisible things is ok then?

 

If this is the case, then let all exploits be exploited, because this is what it is, an exploit. Allow boomers to exploit the elevator shaft in No Mercy; allow ghosting through saferoom doors etc?

 

If Infected are allowed to use such methods, then there has to be some balance for survivors what is permissible?

Edited November 14, 2013 by MPG1770

[san`]

Using invisible things is ok then? Ghosting through saferoom doors is acceptable then?

 

That was my sentiment too, as well as the charger glitch.

[MPG1770]

Regardless of whether this is cheating or not, which in my opinion it is, shows how sad the person who uses these methods who use them are basically cheating and would not get those pounces consistently if they were to play within the boundaries of the game.

 

If this is to continue in allowing, there has to be some balance on part of the survivors and I suggest giving them the grenade launcher back on the Sewer Level of No Mercy.

Edited November 14, 2013 by MPG1770

[JackieChan]

I guess I have been cheating on the server for years without realizing it. Guess I should ban myself.

 

Bye guys.

[MurderinClony]

I don't see how you guys are comparing a hunter pouncing off a wall to a infected that can jump through a door.

The things that allow you to jump through doors is a fault in coding and is being used to the advantage of the player. With all timed glitches, like the jump through door spawn, the coding either isn't fast enough or isn't thorough enough to prevent such actions.

 

Think of what the director sees. You are not in sight of the survivors, you can spawn here. *infected is moving* Still not in sight of the survivors you can spawn here. Okay he hit the spawn button, time to spawn him. He is inside a wall he cannot spawn here. He is in sight of the survivors he cannot spawn here. *spawns hunter*

 

The director was following its spawning rules when the infected hit the button, however, the director does not take into account where the infected will be when he spawns. When the director activates the code, which spawns the infected in, like all code, it takes 'x' amount of time to run, to which the pre-conditions are met to activate such code. The user uses this small time, to jump into a spot where is isn't able to spawn, and be spawned.

 

A hunter jumping on walls that are there, though cannot be seen, but are FOUND through experimenting requires no timing, no special pre-conditions or post-conditions. The hunter is able to jump off a wall.

 

Now think of what the director sees when it comes to this. The hunter is "able to pounce". *presses pounce button* Send the hunter flying. The hunter is in the air. The hunter has touched something before landing, check for a flag, if not, enable "able to pounce." *presses pounce button* Send the hunter flying. Repeat....

 

The director has no sense of wall textures or what the hunter is pouncing off of. I see no fault in code being used to my advantage. The director just sees the invisible wall as another "textureless wall."

Edited November 14, 2013 by MurderinClony

[Jimn]

This isn't an exploit. Follow this logic:

1. The Hunter was designed to be able to jump off walls (normal brushes).

2. These "invisible walls" are technically no different from any other wall. They are brushes with the nodraw or skybox texture applied to them rather than a visible texture.

3. The Hunter can jump off walls.

 

Try using Hammer sometime and make something crazy.

[MPG1770]

However you try and discuss all your arguments in favour of using invisible walls, that is the design of the map, not the game-play. Shows a lack of skill if you need to use invisible things to get those high pounces.

 

There needs to be some balance, if infected are going to use these exploits, then surely, survivors can do the the same?

[MurderinClony]

So, what would you say if this hunter was bouncing off walls that we can see, textured, because he is able to do such a thing?

Would that be exploiting? Because the hunter can reach areas of the map that other infected can't?

The hunter has the ability to jump like a madman, evidently valve must have intended something like this. And even in one of the tips they give you at the loading screen. "A hunter can jump off walls, quickly turn and hit the jump button again."

[JackieChan]

This whole conversation is stupid and I'm putting an end to it.