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The hunter needs to be toned down.


Garychios

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incapping a survivor in an area that can be pounced, then having people pounce him over and over is a team strategy that can turn things around for the infected as a group. placing spit and booms in the same spot helps keep the person incapped for the hunters to keep going.

 

everyone makes good points, but I really would prefer we keep the server as is for most things.

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incapping a survivor in an area that can be pounced, then having people pounce him over and over is a team strategy that can turn things around for the infected as a group. placing spit and booms in the same spot helps keep the person incapped for the hunters to keep going.

 

everyone makes good points, but I really would prefer we keep the server as is for most things.

 

Yeh but lately its finding a new guy and pouncing him over and over.

 

Like many people have said before a team is as good as the worst players, with chargers and spitters you can spawn block, but hunters come from the sky.

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incapping a survivor in an area that can be pounced, then having people pounce him over and over is a team strategy that can turn things around for the infected as a group. placing spit and booms in the same spot helps keep the person incapped for the hunters to keep going.

 

everyone makes good points, but I really would prefer we keep the server as is for most things.

 

Yeh but lately its finding a new guy and pouncing him over and over.

 

Like many people have said before a team is as good as the worst players, with chargers and spitters you can spawn block, but hunters come from the sky.

 

Not much different from a rocket jump that all classes can take advantage of.

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(edited)

Hunters are easily the most high risk high reward infected. And i am saying high risk for two reasons, people looking to shoot you down and ability to actually hit the pounces. If i am ever playing against a player with a good shot (notably nerdy [chimichanga i guess] and general frustrate me the most) I get heated fast because I can never even get out of the skies. Also these same people get the most points on survivor every single time because they take advantage of the easy to kill hunters and boomers.

 

Now I haven't played in a while and i'm sure not many of you know my face but i have played hunter for a very long time on GC so I can hit a few pounces. But still i only hit about 1 in every 2 pounces on a good day.

 

ALSO you can punch the hunters before they hit you, which is the most saddening thing in the world. And do not say it is too hard to consistently do because a few members have, angeringly, gotten really good at it.

 

Yet i do agree that the pounces on incapped targets should be nerfed, it takes zero skill and is just boring. I try not to ever pounce downed survivors because it takes no skill, it doesn't make me feel good about the pounce like a clean 25 would on one of those bastards that are always watching the skies *cough* chimichanga *cough*. All in all i play hunter because of the amount of fun it is, i am even trying to learn the Clony style pounces because getting up so high is just so damn fun but absolutely not as efficient.

Edited by Badguy
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incapping a survivor in an area that can be pounced, then having people pounce him over and over is a team strategy that can turn things around for the infected as a group. placing spit and booms in the same spot helps keep the person incapped for the hunters to keep going.

 

everyone makes good points, but I really would prefer we keep the server as is for most things.

 

Yeh but lately its finding a new guy and pouncing him over and over.

 

Like many people have said before a team is as good as the worst players, with chargers and spitters you can spawn block, but hunters come from the sky.

 

Not much different from a rocket jump that all classes can take advantage of.

 

 

I remember when I rocketed in a smoker and was killed as soon as I landed. I just kinda sat there for a minute before it dawned on how dumb I was.

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Notice last night, a certain player who rocks was getting owned because he could not play hunter on the map we were on. While the rest of the team of his team was doing fairly well with boomers, chargers, spitters etc. This is my point, hunter requires very little to no team coordination. The rest of the classes do, Yes, once a person is down, it requires some coordination who goes first to pounce and get 25 damage over and over and over up to what ever the spawns are. Anyway, I dont think nothing is going to happen with the hunter.

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I ve noticed too that more people are being hunters and when the other team just speeds thru choke points they yell scramble.

We have places where we need chargers or spitters and we have hunters waiting for a minute or two to spawn so they can get their pounce.

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I heard your argument from the beginning in the server Turbo and it merits a wrongful change. Your reasoning was clearly out of your annoyance and directed at certain players.

 

And now we're talking about how a certain style should affect the hunter class as a whole? Are we punishing players for playing a certain way? Because they don't spawn as other class or they waste just too much time as one? It should be a problem if the class itself needs balance, not because a couple players hold on to the hunter class and trying to make best use of the situation given how weak they are.

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I ve noticed too that more people are being hunters and when the other team just speeds thru choke points they yell scramble.

We have places where we need chargers or spitters and we have hunters waiting for a minute or two to spawn so they can get their pounce.

 

this. lol XD

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I ve noticed too that more people are being hunters and when the other team just speeds thru choke points they yell scramble.

We have places where we need chargers or spitters and we have hunters waiting for a minute or two to spawn so they can get their pounce.

 

this. lol XD

 

It's true not everyone can be hunters but that doesn't warrant a nerf. It means you need to better communicate with your team and let the people who are good at hunting do the hunting.

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This is my point, hunter requires very little to no team coordination.

 

Shall I tell you why? I think I will.

 

The hunter requires little to no team coordination because they can be great starters of chaos. If a hunter flies in and hits a low survivor, regardless of it being a high damage pounce, he causes a stumble to all nearby survivors, allowing him to have a bit of time to damage and down that survivor. This is precisely what the other infected need, an opening.

It allows the spitter to spit on and slow down the team even more than with just him being down.

It allows the charger to run through and push them back even more than where the downed survivor is.

It allows the smoker to pull backwards and separate the team even more.

It allows the boomer to rush in and bring some common which is a bit more chaos.

It allows the jockey to get in and bring a survivor to a certain spot, say a corner for some nice spit damage.

It allows another hunter to pounce on a survivor that is picking up the down survivor and that resets the revive meter, or even hit the guy on the ground which still resets the meter.

 

The hunter is a good tool for quick damage and possible slow downs.

Take a look at some numbers for his damage:

A hunter can deal up to 25 points of damage on impact. Along with this, the hunter simultaneously begins to attack his victim with 5 health per hit. Usually a hunter can get about 2 hits before he is pushed/killed. That is a 35 points of damage max on a survivor within just a few seconds, more than 1/3 of his health is gone.

Now imagine if the survivor was slow, to be slow they have a maximum of 39 health which leaves a measly 3 hits after a 25 to down him. Usually a person who is slow will have less than this and the hunter can get the down with just 1 or 2 hits.

And for a character getting up black and white, he only has 30 health, which leaves a measly 1 hit from the hunter to cause a kill IF you land a 25.

 

My point is this: Someone has to start the chaos.

The hunter is a perfect candidate for this. His direction of attack is surprising, his initial damage is punishing, and his after effects can cause a lot of commotion if used correctly. Someone HAS to go in first to start the chaos, and he can dish out a big amount of chaos in a few moments. But just as soon as hes in, hes out and dead. But the effects left behind are perfect for team attacks.

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I ve noticed too that more people are being hunters and when the other team just speeds thru choke points they yell scramble.

We have places where we need chargers or spitters and we have hunters waiting for a minute or two to spawn so they can get their pounce.

This is what I am talking about. And yes, lately we have even more hunters playing that class, because its an easy 8-12 pts. Pounce 3 times and get a reward and its tank time. I dont expect anythign to happen anyway. Crasx or Jackie dont seem to care about this thread

 

This is my point, hunter requires very little to no team coordination.

 

Shall I tell you why? I think I will.

 

The hunter requires little to no team coordination because they can be great starters of chaos. If a hunter flies in and hits a low survivor, regardless of it being a high damage pounce, he causes a stumble to all nearby survivors, allowing him to have a bit of time to damage and down that survivor. This is precisely what the other infected need, an opening.

It allows the spitter to spit on and slow down the team even more than with just him being down.

It allows the charger to run through and push them back even more than where the downed survivor is.

It allows the smoker to pull backwards and separate the team even more.

It allows the boomer to rush in and bring some common which is a bit more chaos.

It allows the jockey to get in and bring a survivor to a certain spot, say a corner for some nice spit damage.

It allows another hunter to pounce on a survivor that is picking up the down survivor and that resets the revive meter, or even hit the guy on the ground which still resets the meter.

 

The hunter is a good tool for quick damage and possible slow downs.

Take a look at some numbers for his damage:

A hunter can deal up to 25 points of damage on impact. Along with this, the hunter simultaneously begins to attack his victim with 5 health per hit. Usually a hunter can get about 2 hits before he is pushed/killed. That is a 35 points of damage max on a survivor within just a few seconds, more than 1/3 of his health is gone.

Now imagine if the survivor was slow, to be slow they have a maximum of 39 health which leaves a measly 3 hits after a 25 to down him. Usually a person who is slow will have less than this and the hunter can get the down with just 1 or 2 hits.

And for a character getting up black and white, he only has 30 health, which leaves a measly 1 hit from the hunter to cause a kill IF you land a 25.

 

My point is this: Someone has to start the chaos.

The hunter is a perfect candidate for this. His direction of attack is surprising, his initial damage is punishing, and his after effects can cause a lot of commotion if used correctly. Someone HAS to go in first to start the chaos, and he can dish out a big amount of chaos in a few moments. But just as soon as hes in, hes out and dead. But the effects left behind are perfect for team attacks.

 

And the charger will still make less pts than the hunter did. This is my pt.

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I ve noticed too that more people are being hunters and when the other team just speeds thru choke points they yell scramble.

We have places where we need chargers or spitters and we have hunters waiting for a minute or two to spawn so they can get their pounce.

This is what I am talking about. And yes, lately we have even more hunters playing that class, because its an easy 8-12 pts. Pounce 3 times and get a reward and its tank time. I dont expect anythign to happen anyway. Crasx or Jackie dont seem to care about this thread

 

I already gave my thoughts on the situation on the first page.

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This debate is between fundamentally different perceptions about the role of points on our L4D2 server. On one side, the anti-hunter group contends that points should be awarded based on how much a player helps the team (via damage, incaps, slows, whatever). On the other hand, the pro-hunter group is defending hunters based on the fact that they're a high skill class.

 

In my opinion, I believe that the anti-hunter group has a FAR stronger argument here. So what if hunters take a lot of skill? I don't care how "good" you are unless it translates to winning the game. The only metric we should be looking at here is who does more for their team, and in this perspective hunters are CLEARLY overpowered on our server.

 

For example, say you 25 damage pounce someone - you get 12 points. Great.

On the other hand, lets say you 25 damage smoke someone. Not only do you reverse their progress, you also halt their momentum for FAR longer and help your team. Or say you land a 25 damage charge which also knocks two people down. Obviously a 25 damage smoke/charge does more for your team a 25 damage pounce, and yet the charger/smoker get far less points for their effort.

 

Now, here is where you come and say "but hunters take more skill" - but so what? This is a TEAM game and points should measure how much you're contributing to your TEAM, not how much skill you have playing one particular class. Moreover, I'd contend that, in fact, giving hunters such high points destroys team play on our server. Simply put, it encourages skilled hunters to forsake the team-play which we supposedly care so much about in favor of a solo-tactic - rush a tank. I personally find the game much more engaging when there's solid and continuous 10v10 team play rather than easy-mode straight to tank wipes. Indeed, I frequently play hunters solely because they're a stupid easy way to ignore your team and win games with tanks.

 

Basically, there's no objective reason that hunters should be given points just because they require skill. In my opinion, good play is about winning, not about talent with class mechanics.

Edited by Leonebluen
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And the charger will still make less pts than the hunter did. This is my pt.

 

Not necessarily. Depending on the location and current situation, a charger can gain MORE than a hunter if he charges right.

Also note, the charger requires a minimum amount of skills, only patience.

 

you should try being a charger if you think its easy .

Hunter skills? get up real high jump down.Lots of skill there

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Basically, there's no objective reason that hunters should be given points just because they require skill. In my opinion, good play is about winning, not about talent with class mechanics.

One could also say that because people have talent with class mechanics causes teams to win.

 

On one side, people could argue that Hunters hold spots to get a good DP to rack up points which takes away their ability to play with the team. One the other side, people could argue that the reason why Hunters lie in wait is because that's what they're supposed to do. They have the longest lifespan of all the other infected players because Hunters need to spawn in, get to where they need to go, and wait. They're like spiders. If you saw spiders trying to chasing their pray around, there would be none left. Hunters are virtually useless unless they get a DP. The whole idea is that Hunters are the only DPS class in the game. Their pinning mechanic is stationary whereas all the other classes that have a pinning mechanic cause players to move from their original spot. Smokers pull, Jockeys run, Chargers charge, Hunters...sit. The 3 other SI in question are basically group separators. Hunters are not. The 3 SI have jobs that the Hunter simply cannot do and to make up for it, they have a job of doing as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time as possible. That's why you don't see players who know how to pounce people pounce people in a small little hallway unless that player is by themselves. Why do you think when you do a DP, you get half the points in damage? I felt it was the most balanced way to do it at the time. Does it seem like it needs to be changed? Maybe, but it doesn't need to be completely overhauled as some people are suggesting.

 

Yes, I get the point that people who use Hunters use them just to rack up as many points as possible by doing DPs and don't "help their team", but in a sense, isn't that "helping their team"?. Every class is situational. Some classes just have more spots to utilize it's ability moreso than others. Hunters having the most out of every other class put together.

 

 

 

And the charger will still make less pts than the hunter did. This is my pt.

 

Not necessarily. Depending on the location and current situation, a charger can gain MORE than a hunter if he charges right.

Also note, the charger requires a minimum amount of skills, only patience.

 

you should try being a charger if you think its easy .

Hunter skills? get up real high jump down.Lots of skill there

 

Charger skills? Run into someone. Lots of skill there. :ph34r:

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How about making it take a certain amount of time before you could play a certain class? lol And if that's not possible how about giving achievements/points for team things like, smoker pulling someone into a death charge area and charger takes it, it awards both of those players who took the time to work together :D. Or if that's not possible just make more achievements for the other classes, for example the charging ones. Not many people are going to stand in a line for you to charge 8 people to get the achievement xD. And if that's also not possible lol, what's a good movie to watch? xD

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One could also say that because people have talent with class mechanics causes teams to win.

 

They *could* say that, but they'd be making a silly comment given my entire argument. Surely class mechanics affects your gameplay, but it's a singular component to how much you do for your team. Surely you need to be good at class mechanics to help your team, but being good at a class doesn't guarantee you're helping your team. It's a pre-requisite, not a guarantee, of good play.

 

 

The whole idea is that Hunters are the only DPS class in the game.

Yes, I get the point that people who use Hunters use them just to rack up as many points as possible by doing DPs and don't "help their team", but in a sense, isn't that "helping their team"?.

 

Jackie, did you even read my post? You still have not given me an objective reason why 25 damage from a hunter should be worth more than 25 damage from a charger. Sure, they're good at dealing out a lot of damage fast, but does that mean their damage should be worth more points? Absolutely not. It's not fair that one player can incapacitate someone for 5 seconds with a charger, do more than 25 damage, and still get less points than a hunter. The current system is NOT rewarding good team-play, it's rewarding good hunter-play, and that's just silly.

 

You basically contend that because hunters are a dps class, their damage should be worth more points - I ask you *why* is that fair? Why can we not give points based on team-utility? It seems far more fair to give a fixed number of points per point of damage across every class, along with a boost to classes like chargers/smokers/jockeys based on how long they hold someone.

Edited by Leonebluen
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Regulars value the system point far too much rather then the full potential of a class brings to the table. A hunter can only stop a person in it's track, when a charger can bring a teammate 50 feet away from his teammates! Just think about the difference of mechanic and see how much more value a charger can be or other classes for that matter. Every class completes its objective with the correct rewards and is only because we assign points to each action that we forsaken the original aspect.

 

And the argument with a incapped survivor being too easy for hunter pounces? Hell, every class can just land damage/disruption just as quick with rocket launching.

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Jerkoff, in my opinion that's an argument for nerfing the hunter. Just as you said on the last page, "they have to have the points to make it worthwhile." You're basically affirming that hunters get more points than their other SI counterparts for less team-contribution... How is that fair? If you're saying it's necessary to balance the classes, doesn't that balancing discourage team play?

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