Restrict the Fast Awp_Switch?

[Dennis]

ive been doing this since i learned how to play the game and i have never seen this brought up before by anyone. i mean your talking about restrikting something that has been used for yers. if it had been found as a glitch it woulda been fixed along time ago. heck even leagues would ban it. its an everyday thing that has been used for years. to me this could be a move that would could make many people leave the server.

[Fatty]

Listen, if i was going to up and apply this, would I publically take a vote and leave it open for "discussion?"

 

The topic is not: "Mmmm is going to restrict Fast-Switch unless enough people pee their pants."

 

The fact that it has been used for years or that people would leave the server has nothing to do with the discussion going on. These, and so many more, are all based on FEELINGS. I'm just wanting, still, to discuss how it works, and why people do it, and why it's realistic, why it's not an exploit, etc. While 90% of the above posts bring us no closer to an understanding as to why it should be left ("cause it's done, cause you can, cause we do, cause we always have, cause i think, cause, cause, cause, etc. don't count in the constructiveness of the discussion) I can say I understand it more. Am I convinced it's not an exploit? No, I am not. Does that mean I'm going to install this plugin right now? Of course not, so we can all relax about that, you can leave trop in your favorites for now.

 

Heck, a couple people might leave our server just because we're talking about it!

 

At any rate, I'm still looking for some logical explanation for performing this trick.

 

Before moss tainted his argument, he mentioned "seeing more." Is that the reason that the rest of you do this? If not, then what is?

[Cyklik]

SaN said it well Fatty, maybe it's not logical and isn't realistic, but neither are all those other things he mentioned. I'd bet you've run with your knife out because it makes you faster. This is the same type of situation.

[Fatty]

Um, no...going to bed now, I'll enjoy the evenings posts tomorrow sometime.

 

Running with a knife...makes sense if you have your gear packed away....you could move faster. That has nothing to do with this.

 

----

 

Additionally, while you guys continue to explain the rationale behind the fast-switch...what exactly is the bind to do this. I'm sure some people just use the prev weapon, next weapon, but I also know there's a way to make one key do it. How's that script currently go?

[General J]

The point I'm making is this: It's not natural.  It's not intended.  It's an exploit.

They have the option for you to bind a key to "previous weapon" in the controls section, and in the config. I am pretty sure if it was an exploit ( such as bunny hopping ) they would have removed it long ago. They give you that option for a reason. It is not a hard thing to learn, and anyone can bind a key to do this with any gun. I haven't seen anyone have a problem with this until now, so I see no reason to make a big deal of it.

[flux]

honestly, im argee-ing with m0ss. lol. but honestly, what else r you posibly going to ban... the shield..done! if you see anyone using the invinc bug just kick them or ban them. if ur a reg you should know not to use that. if you seriously enforce that awp switch rule i am out of this community cause this banning is getting way out of hand.

[Fatty]

The fact of the matter is that your tinkled that u can't do it, and that you want to be able to kill people easier.

Never saw this. Again, Moss here somehow making it personal. Try not to read my mind too much, cause you're off in this instance. I'm not fighting for a plugin, I'll point out the wide-open topic at the very top.

 

However, I won't tolerate your snide attitude much longer in the discussion, especially if you'd like to continue to hurl insults like this at me. The only parts that anger me are your comments that have zero to do with this discussion.

 

San,

 

The situations you made (had to hunt cause I didn't know what DoD was referring to). Ideally, all of those things that you mentioned that don't happen SHOULD happen. However, here's one that is possible to control, and I opened it up to be discussed.

 

---

 

If I'm the only one that truly wants to understand it and why it should stay, and am the only one willing to wade through all the smoke to possibly arrive at a reasonable explanation, then so be it.

 

Perhaps this should have been a vote-only poll....but then again, I, and probably many quiet others that haven't messed with the fast-switch, would still not completely understand it.

 

What's the one-key script?

[Fatty]

if you seriously enforce that awp switch rule i am out of this community

Is anyone tallying these?

[Guest PDO]

Fatty : bind "q" "lastinv"

 

Is what is in my .cfg

 

When you fast switch this is what happens :

 

Dang, I missed my first awp shot, I suck. Heres my deagle, I'm looking at his head, I'll switch back so when I scope I can kill him. Boom, he's dead. YAY!

 

Fatty, have you ever had a grenade, then switched to knife? Because if you did you're a quick switcher! Same if you went from Silenced colt to deagle, and a few other things I don't care to list.

 

Also : Reloading while taking off a silencer has been removed.

 

Finally, you only removed the riot shield because of the server crashing ability ; not the exploit. How come it's OK to be invincible w/ a riot shield but not do a "quick switch" that gives you no speed advantage in when you can actually fire the bullet?

Edited September 26, 2003 by TFR | PDO

[linch]

if you seriously enforce that awp switch rule i am out of this community

Is anyone tallying these?

Thats 2! And 3 maybe's

[Guest [TFR]Whitey]

My whole deal if it wasn't intended/intentional it would have been taken out with patches, I doubt valve missed that when they were upgrading cs.

 

I agree that it is definately a learned skill used by all great awpers in the cs community... A person enters the Mmmm server looking to play against some experienced players and get better has the opertunity to see what a good awper is about. I don't think removing fast switch will even the field, it stops people from playing the real game... IMO by disabling it you won't really attract those who are looking to get better or the more experienced players...

 

The shield problem is an exploit, fast switching with an AWP is a learned skill... If the programmers wanted it out it would have been gone w/ 1.6

[Xterminator]

i agree with fatty.

[Fatty]

opened .......

 

^ that's what Linch said in our privs.

 

Ok. We're not going to use the plugin atm. Now you can see I'm not fighting for something besides understanding it all.

 

Now, HEY COME BACK HERE!

 

Now that we can all relax on that, let's continue the discussion.

 

Access: Yes, everyone can learn, practice, get better at it.

 

Realism: None. Doesn't make any sense.

 

Advantage: it must have, or else people wouldn't do it. Why is it done? Again, mentioned way back was a visual thing, something about seeing more or something. Is that it?

[mrX]

Maybe this is where the problem comes in:

 

http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~counter-scrip...index.php?id=91

 

Scroll down thru and you'll see what is proclaimed to be fast-switch scripts. I've not messed with them, or even know if they work, but maybe just having them creates the perception of an advantage.

 

Personally, the 'q' 'lastinv' bind works great b/c it works for more than just the AWP.

 

The real issue becomes tho, why has noone really answered the question of what they are using? Moss has, but noone else really. What is "fast switch"? answer that and what you do to really lay it out there. If you can't, or feel you can't, then maybe you're experiencing the issue.

[Guest PDO]

You can aim w/ deagle x-hair.. already stated.

 

Another would be habbit.

[Dennis]

yes i do it out of habbit myself i also use it to help me see whats around me before making my next shot also. there are of course the other skilled things you can do with the awp but iw ont get into it. its just something that takes time to learn. but yes fatty for me i use it more just to see whats around me and just out of habbit.

[Guest Mossad]

Stick to the debate without being a moron, Moss.

 

But I can't, because this whole topic is moronic.

 

Now maybe I over stepped the lines with a few comments, I admit that. But you even considering somethign like this is just ".................................................."

[linch]

[THX1138]

i have my mouse4 button for my last used weapon. I dont use the AWP ever. I hate it. the silencer reload thing on the colt has been fixed. and there are numerous X-hairs out there that let you see the whole screen while zoomed with an AWP. all of the black area is gone and its just the regular screen. anyway i also agree with fatty, its not feasible for the gun to rechamber a bullet while switching, but it is a game and thats all that it ever will be however realistic it is or isn't.

[All Kill3r]

To answer Fatty on why I fast-switch

 

1) see whats going on around me between AWP shots ( whether it be i missed or im spamming )

2) use the deagle for crosshairs since they took those out for the awp a while back for those that were around then ( )

3) once your pretty familiar with your controls and can fast/switch and be accurate with it you open the realms of noscoping

4) (not only for AWP) say im blastin away at some enemy with my m4a1 and being familiar with about how many rounds left i have in my clip i fast/switch to my deagle and take him out but with only having 7 rounds and im nub i go through those and the 2nd enemy isnt dead so i fast/switch back to my m4a1 to finish him off. Does this save any time ? No. Why do i do it? Its consistent, my aim never changes and no animation of the weapon coming out is done. The delay is there but animation isnt.

 

Your side of this would be to say "why not just use the scroll like everyone?" or something along those lines. I would have to say to you that i would rather just hit 1 buttton instead of scrolling around through my weapons and when i hit that 1 button i know what im going to get and im getting it right then.

 

 

Do people that "fast/switch" gain an advantage over those that do not? No. Its whatever you are used to and how you learned the game. Everyones shots take the same amount of time, just someone that can fastswitch may not have to "waste" time with zoom because its really un-needed after your first shot. You may take that as "cheating" but i would call it skill/learned behavior that can only be acquired with putting time into the game and learning it. If you do not wish to learn this skill in the game then thats your choice, everyone has thiers. Ive been around since CS was born and have seen a lot of changes, fastswitch is a good thing and it adds another dimension of challenge to the game for those that are willing to explore and experiment with it.

 

All Kill3r n0 Fill3r

( Pro Fast-Switch )

[san`]

Why I fast switch:

 

1. Adjust my crosshair for either a new target, or a missed moving one.

2. See what's going on around me, or perhaps make a turn faster. (I have a low zoom_sensitivity_ratio)

3. Move along faster, for example, if we are rushing, I don't want to run slow with awp, I'll switch to a pistol instead, then, if I see somebody far off, I'll switch to awp to shoot them, or if I'm out of pistol bullets I'll do that also.

4. If I non-lethal somebody with awp, and know 1 deagle bullet will take them out, I don't want to have to waste the time with zooming in and possibly dying from it, I'd rather shoot one bullet with my pistol, switch back to awp and find a new target.

 

Those are the main reasons I do, plus once you've done it for a while, it just feels normal. It's the same thing with buying full ammo for me; now I know I won't use 40 awp shots in a round, but I just feel safer knowing I have them.

 

InSaNiTy

( Pro Fast-Switch )

Edited September 26, 2003 by SaN

[Fatty]

But I can't, because this whole topic is moronic. 

If the topic in a public forum like this angers you so, the stop reading it.

 

------

 

I understand people have gotton used to it. That makes total sense in relation to the response to this thread.

 

Thanks for all the cool explanations (cool as in relaxed). Again, being used to it is the reason we do most of what we do in CS...the way we have our keys etc.

 

One theme I see in the last two posts is that we're using the crosshairs supplied by the deagle to aim our AWP. This is one of the things I loved about the Call of Duty demo...too aim accurately, you "looked down the sights."

 

While it makes no sense to have a crosshair with a scopeless pistol, that's done to give you a reference in the transition from life to a game. It makes even less sense to be able to incorporate a pistol into the aiming of a scoped rifle (just trying to create of image of the whole thing going down).

 

While I disagree with the nature of it, I can't blame people for making use of it. It is just like the nades in a way...if you can do it, why not? But the rebuy is taken care of with buytime.

 

I have another question about this though. When you do the fast-switch, aim with the deagle, then fire again...does it go straight back to the zoomed mode with the awp? I have to believe that it does because people are talking about the field of vision, etc, and I also can conclude that the shots are NOT no-scoped.

[Gond]

I voted no. I agree with what Fatty is saying but I also agree with what others are saying. Personally I'd love to see the AWP thrown out all together...specially when Moss is playing on the other team However, I think the fact that there are so many other "exploits" in the game that to single out this one item doesn't seem right. And, yes, I fast switch all the time. First thing I do when a round starts is switch from rifle to pistol & then use "q" for switching. Course I rarely use the AWP. I even fast switch from pistol to knife in pistol round.

 

However, my opinion only pertains to pub play. How confusing to people from outside the community when they try to do what is "legal" on other servers and now their gun is dropped. This type of limitation could potentially chase a new person away (or even old timers). Start this discussion about MCC and I'd probably be voting the other way.

[Gond]

I have another question about this though. When you do the fast-switch, aim with the deagle, then fire again...does it go straight back to the zoomed mode with the awp? I have to believe that it does because people are talking about the field of vision, etc, and I also can conclude that the shots are NOT no-scoped.

 

My experience is that you have to scope in after fast switching.

[Dennis]

If you wanna get technical on "no scoping" then yea it really isnt because you are still hitting the zoom button its just that u fire right after it to give it the appearence of "no scoping" its really really hard to actually "no scope" w/o touching the zoom.