Tek-Almighty February 1, 2007 Share Tek-Almighty Member February 1, 2007 http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=354&type=expert A good initial 2nd day review of how the top end cards and various driver versions do with Vista... Wow... All I can say is I hope that MS gets it's @* together soon as well as the GPU companies... I know that they are pushing out fixes and drivers ASAP, but in some games (hate to ruin the ending for you)...the same card with the same game has a performance delta of 100 to 200%... wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaM2 February 1, 2007 Share akaM2 Member February 1, 2007 this is the reason i will stay on xp media center for atleast another year, even though i have a dx10 card. no reason as of now to switch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo February 1, 2007 Share Cujo Member February 1, 2007 read that yesterday. ati is way ahead of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReverend(c) February 1, 2007 Share TheReverend(c) Member February 1, 2007 this is the reason i will stay on xp media center for atleast another year, even though i have a dx10 card. no reason as of now to switch Yea Im gonna wait for the first vista service pack myself. By that time the nvidia 8900gtx will prolly be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiler February 1, 2007 Share boiler Member February 1, 2007 I ordered a new laptop from Dell yesterday (I9400, see my other post for details), and I obviously didn't have the option to choose XP over Vista.... guess I might not be able to do much "higher quality" gaming on it (at least compared to my home rig w/ E6600, 2GB, 7800GT) after all if what you're saying about Vista is true... I did trick the thing out pretty darned well, I'll just have to see for myself I guess... I'll probably spent 1/3rd of my time on that laptop looking for driver updates... I'm still way excited to get it however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek-Almighty February 2, 2007 Author Share Tek-Almighty Member February 2, 2007 read that yesterday. ati is way ahead of the game. Tell me how that statement is justified... number one...unified shader (pixel processing) was something that ATI pretty much coined...and somehow NVidia beat them to the punch by 2 months and counting... Last time we had a Cujo prediction on DX10 was that ATI would have a next gen DX10 card that would stomp the 8800 GTX...I'm not sure of the exact wording, but it was something like that... I will agree that in a bunch of games that the top end (1950) cards, that ATI did some stomping in single card and CFire formats...but NVidia beat some butt in others...and that was with the OLD GEN 7900 GTX. I really hope you are right about your prediction...b/c we need cheaper prices on all cards. but you are wrong about the verb tense.... ATI IS not ahead...they are BY DEFINITION behind, because as of this time, they have no DX10 cards and this is officially a DX10 market as of Jan 30...AND the current top end NV card STOMPS single and pretty much the CF offerings from the ATI... With that said...how do you justify your statement...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo February 2, 2007 Share Cujo Member February 2, 2007 boiler, your laptop will either match or be slightly behind your desktop. tek, the quote below is taken directly from the conclusion of that article. "AMD's driver development team is definitely a leap ahead of NVIDIA's as the initial release ATI Catalyst driver offered a gaming experience much closer to that of Windows XP in the new Vista OS than NVIDIA's initial Forceware release." with my comments i was referring to the article which spawned this discussion. regarding your final comment, if this is a dx10 market please name me one dx10 game currently available for purchase. yes, the 8800 cards are far more advanced than ati's current offering. however, for the last few years ati has always released their new generation cards second and nearly every time they've bettered the nvidia offering. r600 is set to beat the 8800gtx which is why nvidia gave in and let their partners overclock the cards. ati was the first manufacturer to release a card with gddr4. they were the first manufacturer to release cards based on 80nm technology. yes, nvidia releases they're next gen cards first but ati is actually the technology leader when it comes to capabilities, drivers and until the 8800s were released, image quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek-Almighty February 2, 2007 Author Share Tek-Almighty Member February 2, 2007 (edited) boiler, your laptop will either match or be slightly behind your desktop. tek, the quote below is taken directly from the conclusion of that article. "AMD's driver development team is definitely a leap ahead of NVIDIA's as the initial release ATI Catalyst driver offered a gaming experience much closer to that of Windows XP in the new Vista OS than NVIDIA's initial Forceware release." with my comments i was referring to the article which spawned this discussion. regarding your final comment, if this is a dx10 market please name me one dx10 game currently available for purchase. yes, the 8800 cards are far more advanced than ati's current offering. however, for the last few years ati has always released their new generation cards second and nearly every time they've bettered the nvidia offering. r600 is set to beat the 8800gtx which is why nvidia gave in and let their partners overclock the cards. ati was the first manufacturer to release a card with gddr4. they were the first manufacturer to release cards based on 80nm technology. yes, nvidia releases they're next gen cards first but ati is actually the technology leader when it comes to capabilities, drivers and until the 8800s were released, image quality. Cujo...you know this is not an attack aimed at you, but at your "reinforcement" of the statement at the end of the article (which I obviously disagree with) You know I respect you as a forum member, and certainly as a technorati and system builder, as well as all around hardware info guru... To further add to my own confoundment... there's this http://www.aggravatedgamers.com/2007/01/31...ista-community/ proving that nvidia does not have their *bleep* together at all... All I'm trying to say by posting that is the fact that so far both teams are way behind, considering that pro developers have had vista to work on for more than a year I truly believe the 8800GTX is a DX10 part, because DX10 is not game dependent (well...sorta...) but it is by definition a minimum driver/hardware/software requirement... I by no means, am an NVIDIA fanboy...BUT they do have a superior product now...I know that when ATI comes back with their answer, it is usually in spades and they bring the pain...That is what I am hoping for...but i don't know... I suppose that was the point of my whole rant...that i think both teams have dropped the ball and i was hoping others would see that too... as far as ATI being the "leader" we differ in this regard...because it has been well proven on these forums and in many documented benchmarks that ATI and NV both accel in certain areas and not in others...if you want to debate that, we can, and we can both prove our points... I don't think that the R600 is going to be the show stopper you think it is...i just don't...i think they will both do what they have done best...one will win in one area and lose in another...and BTW, i don't think that either 80nm or ddr4 have proven themselves yet...imho...we can debate that too. Edited February 2, 2007 by Tek-Almighty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo February 2, 2007 Share Cujo Member February 2, 2007 (edited) every company including microsoft has dropped the ball with vista. the delays didn't help anybody. i strongly believe ati is in a good position right now. there will not be a high demand for dx10 video cards until dx10 games come out. ati is not losing huge business not having a fast card to match the 8800. many enthusiasts are waiting as always to see what ati offers and many gamers have no reason to upgrade until dx10 games come out. nvidia currently has only beta drivers out while ati has whql certified drivers out. as for the technology leader, ati is always first to market with new tech. 80nm or gddr4 don't need to "prove" themselves as they are just technology advancements. nvidia's next card gen card will use both technologies... ati previous to 8800 ati lead the industry in image quality. the ability to do hdr with aa in games like oblivion is just one example. ati cards always perform better in newer games than nvidia because they read the direction technology is going. concentrating on shaders rather than pipelines for all the new games out now is another example of foresight from them. i lost where i was going with this as i'm writing this from work and having a hard time putting my thoughts together in a logical fasion. either way i'm a fan of whatever is better and i've chosen ati for the last 3 years or so cause they've been ahead in technology and i know that my card will get better with age and give me better image quality with about the same performance as the competition. the 8800 changed all that and at this point if the r600 isn't faster then i will be recommending the 8800 to people. nvidia has finally fixed their image quality problems. based on what i read, i'm getting every indication that r600 will be faster than the 8800. it's also more advanced. i should probably stop calling it r600 cause the official name is x2800 i believe. edit - you should try and go to fragfest. it'd be cool to meet you. Edited February 2, 2007 by Cujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer February 2, 2007 Share wayfarer Member February 2, 2007 edit - you should try and go to fragfest. it'd be cool to meet you. It truly sux that I cant make it this year!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo February 2, 2007 Share Cujo Member February 2, 2007 you sure? if you could make it down to sauga i could drive you. i've never been so i'm stoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek-Almighty February 4, 2007 Author Share Tek-Almighty Member February 4, 2007 yeah...+ HDR and AA were firsts with ATI... But high quality video scores (HQV) which are now owned by ATI...but barely...were first in the possesion of Nvidia...as was high quality interlacing and progressive scan playback...NV lead on those and that was 2 years ago...then ATI came back with better drivers... As far as ATI leading on "groundbreaking" new games...that is the case many times, with the exception of Source based games (minus the whold HDR thingy in those maps) and ID based games... Oblivion with prev gen hq vid and high AA and AF..that was all ATI...in fact even in games where NV owns, when the resolution goes up, and extras are turned on...their lead disappears at a disproportionate rate.. Remember...The first systems I ever built (and some I still use) were ALL ATI and I found them to be rock solid and well performing. I just will never commit to predicting that one maker over the other will "own"... both have their ups and downs, and like you, I will choose the one with the most advantages vs. disadvantages. I, for one, less'n i'm dead or in jail...will be at FF...probably with my old, last gen, "crappy" NV hardware...but there none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo February 4, 2007 Share Cujo Member February 4, 2007 nice. didn't see you on the list. i look forward to meeting you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallurgic February 4, 2007 Share Metallurgic Member February 4, 2007 Personally, I won't mind the difference in performance (if any). It's just a new standard that we're just going to have to get used to. If you want some added performance, then you can just turn off the fancy interface while you play games. Frames per second aside, I can't wait to use the first good looking Windows operating system. My school should have it in April sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek-Almighty February 4, 2007 Author Share Tek-Almighty Member February 4, 2007 nice. didn't see you on the list. i look forward to meeting you. ditto... I haven't paid yet, cuz waiting on my non-budget-allocated fun money to come in from some jobs... But I will do before long... I'm a bit peeved that I missed the Jan 31 deadline, but oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tek-Almighty February 7, 2007 Author Share Tek-Almighty Member February 7, 2007 I would add this link which is all about Vista Gaming performance to date... HF http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2090572,00.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiler February 8, 2007 Share boiler Member February 8, 2007 Follow up on my new laptop (also posted in my other topic): Vista gaming performance is not too bad on this laptop, 3399 3DMark06(v. 1.1.0) roughly 1000 pts behind my gaming rig, but still respectable enough to play source with nearly all goodies turned on. Here's hoping nvidia gets some better drivers together soon, maybe that will help some. Inspiron 9400 Vista Business Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 (2.0 GHz, 667MHz) 2GB DDR2 @ 533MHz <--- weak link (speed wise) according to Vista 256MB nvidia 7900GS go <---- which dell underclocks a little too heavily imo 160GB SATA HD (5400rpm) 17" WUXGA Truelife LCD (1920x1200 native) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog February 8, 2007 Share ShadowDog Member February 8, 2007 i dont know how to use 3dmark blah blah blah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruten February 8, 2007 Share Kruten Member February 8, 2007 i dont know how to use 3dmark blah blah blah... Download, install, Run Benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruten February 9, 2007 Share Kruten Member February 9, 2007 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37531 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly February 9, 2007 Share dragonfly Member February 9, 2007 it looks like a bulldozer to me - it doest the brute force work like no tomorrow, but doesnt look really pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaftiel February 9, 2007 Share shaftiel Member February 9, 2007 http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37531 Darn card is over a foot long. Sucks up almost 300w. Are they compensating for some male inadequacies or something? heh Shaftiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOFX February 9, 2007 Share NOFX Member February 9, 2007 The graphics card market is ridiculous now... along with the CPU market. Does anyone remember when Nvidias line of cards were 2 version of the Geforce4 MX 3 versions of the Geforce4 Ti. I prefer Nvidia over ATI. So what if ATI can pump out 3 more FPS on their $600 video card. Id still rather have an Nvidia card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly February 9, 2007 Share dragonfly Member February 9, 2007 didnt the article say 39%? I only skimmed it but I usually remember numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flitterkill February 10, 2007 Share Flitterkill GC Board Member February 10, 2007 1) Step one: Back off data from C: 2) Step two: Steal Vista sounds as those are much nicer than XP 3) Step three: Re-install XP as I can't wait for Nvidia to get their excrement together any longer... See you on the other side (hoping this doesn't take too long...) -Fk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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