why do you guys like mac so much?

[tookey]

<looks @ topic title>

 

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<looks @ tookey>

 

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<farts. giggles.>

 

point taken, but then again, i only hopped on the discussion train after it left argument station ;D

 

Also playaa, im not trying to prove you wrong, im trying to prove me not wrong

[benjester]

yeah, they're called displaced windows users (ie - my machine died, is off for repairs, and i have to use "this thing.")

 

if only windows users could get past the "oh my, there's no start bar" and approach the UI with a logic based approach, they might not need to call you. then again, that's a life worth of windows training they'd have to undo, which takes about 5 minutes.

 

They are in no way "displaced windows users"... We use Macs for anything and everything publishing related here... most of our calls come from the Adobe CS suite workflow... currently CS2, and rolling out CS3 soon. But these people have been using Macs for longer then all of you combined. They were using Macs back during the powerpc chips.

 

I will admit, most of the world does not look at any computing experience with a logical approach. But that doesn't make all windows users dumb. I can put a Mac in front of my parents just as easily as a PC and they would still have the same level of difficulty. There is a learning curve either way.

 

And what is wrong with the start bar? The macintosh has a dock that you use to launch applications... our start bar and menu just have more things in it. You also have a menu at the top which lists all the running applications... again, no different.

 

Playaa mentioned hitting f11 and bringing up the desk stop... windows key + D does the same thing.

 

I will say this though... Our mac support RARELY ever has to re-install OS X... I mean they have a hard time remembering when they have had to... where as, windows does need to be re-installed at times to solve things. OS X in that respect is more stable... but again, if there was as much of a software development following as there is on the PC, I would say the macintosh platform would have more issues.

 

so far, all arguments have been opinionated for the most part... no solid argument either way... which tells me the platforms are equally great serving two different flavors...

[appalachian_fox]

as for upgrade-ability of the actual hardware...I've already said in a previous post that you CAN install OS X on a non-proprietary (i.e. non-Apple) machine...so that's not really an argument.

 

Oh really? Where can I go pick up a copy of OS X for my Intel-based desktop? How much does that license cost? Last time I checked, Apple won't sell you OS X and it's against the licensing agreement to use it on a non-Apple machine. This is misleading at best to say this is a non-issue.

 

I'd really like a legit copy of OS X to run on the machine I already have, so if that's changed let me know.

[benjester]

oh I must have missed that... yeah, to my knowledge, you can't just buy os x to put on any machine... it has to be apple branded...

[appalachian_fox]

"Tall people are more aesthetically pleasing. Admit it. We all think that way. Short people are inferior and as such we should pursue a genocide program."

 

"But wait! If you were to start cloning, short people would cost less to clone -- less material cost. It may not be much, but over a few million people that adds up. Let's start a genocide program, but kill the TALL people."

 

"Hey, what about reaching things on tall shelves..."

[Playaa]

I didn't say it would be EASY to do...but I was talking about it in the context of a person who would want to build their own machine, i.e. have enough knowledge about computers to be able to do it themselves.

as for purchasing OS X with no computer attached?

definitely legal

 

also, I don't get the whole "if there were more software for the mac"...I am a pc user that uses TONS of custom software that I download off the internet all the time. I was actually afraid that I wouldn't be able to find equivalent software for OSX that I already had become accustomed to. When I started looking, I discovered that there is TONS of software out there...either alternatives or the exact same thing (example would be VLC Player). I have yet to find a lack of software for my needs.

An example of something I expected not to find would be WinRAR. I use that over Winzip on my work machine. Turns out that, even though WinRAR doesn't have a port, there are 2 or 3 applications that easily work with RAR files.

 

listen, I'm not trying to convince any of you to switch to OSX...I'm just trying to explain why I feel it is so much better. You can stick with Windows all you want. I'll live happily in my prettier OS that is more stable and runs just as much software as yours...and when I want to play games, I'll just boot into Windows

[ZeroDamage]

I do not think that Mac OS Tiger will run on any machine though; it still has to be a MAC built system.

[benjester]

yep, you can buy it seperately... good luck trying to install it... we've tried... and it is a no go.. the hardware support just isn't there...

[Cujo]

I'll live happily in my prettier OS

 

i thought we agreed on this one...

 

 

i can't keep up with you guys. i guess i'll have to check this forum more than once every 12 hours...

[Playaa]

for so called "computer experts" you kids don't know how to use google very well.

 

yes, it's not automatic and it's not something that your grandmother could do...but we've already established that you guys aren't my grandmother and theoretically have greater knowledge of how to operate a "personal computing device" than the average joe.

 

I know it also requires you to install the os from a different disc than the one you would purchase off of Amazon, but last time I checked, when you are purchasing an OS you are licensing the right to use it...nowhere does it say that you must install it from the disc you just purchased. (and of course, you could just do it illegally and not purchase it at all...but that's illegal and makes baby jesus kick a puppy...or something)

 

 

example (we do not condone illegal activity - therefore I will show u puppies)

Edited October 6, 2007 by ZesteR
edited link

[Playaa]

interesting little article I just found on digg.

8 Reasons Windows Users Don’t Switch

 

by Steven Leigh

Oct 02, 2007

 

Let me say it right off the bat: Macs running OS X give the best computing experience on the planet. It’s not that Macs are perfect, but compared to everything else, there is nothing like the Mac experience. With that in mind, it’s difficult for many Mac users to comprehend why there are so many Windows users suffering needlessly by running a Windows system. That’s where I come in.

 

I have been a die-hard Windows user since I started computing. If you had told me I would switch to Mac at any point in the future, I would have laughed at you. There was nothing that could ever make me switch! Well, that didn’t exactly last forever, but as a recent Mac “switcher,†I have a unique perspective on both worlds. Experienced Mac users may not have the perspective that it takes to see what makes Windows users stay with Microsoft, and let’s face it, some Mac users (not you or me, of course) are just downright zealots who think that anyone using Windows should be cast into the fiery pits of Mount Doom and forgotten for all eternity. (Nerd alert!)

 

So allow me to take an objective look at what keeps some Windows users from switching, from the perspective of someone who has resisted switching to Mac for a long time and was looking for any excuse to stay with Windows. And once you’ve read this article, check out “8 Reasons Windows Users DO Switch†(coming soon) to learn what is working.

 

1. Ignorance

Ignorance is merely a lack of knowledge, and when it comes to Macs, most Windows users, myself included, are extremely uninformed. My experiences with Macs were mostly pre-OS X, before the really good stuff began to happen, and I made a decision that Macs were not for me and never looked back. Many Windows users think they’ll have to “re-learn everything†and that nothing will be familiar. While this is partly true, Macs are so much easier to use; many beginners find it easier to do most tasks intuitively, without having to be taught or open a manual. As someone who has spent long hours teaching family and friends how to do simple tasks like email attachments, I can you tell that the same cannot be said about Windows.

 

2. The Office

No, I’m not blaming Steve Carell, I’m talking about where you work. Most office environments run Windows, period. While this is beginning to change, the reality is that the majority of people are using Windows at the office. If you need to bring your work home and get things done, it makes sense that you should run Windows at home, right? Not really, but the average Windows user doesn’t know about Office for Macs, or that their files will still be compatible. They don’t realize how easy it is to work across both platforms, or that they can even run Windows on their Mac when all else fails. Even if they do know these things, they figure that it will be more difficult to work on two platforms than it is worth. Apple is doing a great job lately of educating people on these misunderstandings, but it is still the prevailing thought among Windows users. Even if the Mac doesn’t get a strong hold on the business market, it’s important that people know they’re capable of it.

 

3. Hardware

I have always been a bit of a hardware geek, and used to enjoy building my own machines. Every few years, I would upgrade the motherboard and processor, and re-use the case, the hard drives, and power supply, and could make a significant upgrade for $400-500. I can never do this with a Mac. Hardware geeks are hard to convince for this very reason, and even average Windows users may scoff at something like an iMac because they don’t want to pay for a new monitor every time they upgrade their computer. Mac Minis are popular with Windows switchers because they can use their current monitor, mouse, and keyboard and not have them bundled as with an iMac. This is becoming less of an issue as the price of Macs have come down considerably, and technology moves so fast nowadays, you’ll likely to want to upgrade almost every component every few years anyway. As a former system-builder, I’m now at a point in my life where I would rather pay a little extra for a system that works right out of the box and has great support than save a few hundred dollars at the cost of countless hours of being my own tech support.

 

4. Price

The perception by Windows users is that Macs are more expensive than Windows PCs. This may have been true in the past, but the new Macs are very comparably priced to similarly equipped PCs. Unfortunately, the perception remains. Budget PCs may undercut Mac prices, but budget PCs sacrifice quality parts and support. Apple has shown that they are not interested in competing in the budget computer market, and it’s a smart move, as the margins in this area are extremely small. Windows users should consider what they’re getting for the extra money. Apple’s support is top-notch, the included software, such as iLife, is stellar, and the quality and design of the machines is always first-class.

 

5. Lies

Let’s face it: Apple tends to bend the truth once in a while, especially about Microsoft and Windows. One of the “Get a Mac†ads states that Windows is for spreadsheets and pie-charts, while Macs are for “fun stuff†like photos, movies, etc. To Mac users, this seems both funny and true. Windows users, however, are thinking of the aisles and aisles of games that are available for Windows, while there is a half-shelf devoted to games for the Mac. I don’t know about you, but I can only have so much fun playing with photos. Things like this just sound like lies, and they sometimes present Apple as a company that has to lie about its competitors to get business. Other ads point out flaws in Windows that are so true it hurts, especially letting people know that Macs don’t get viruses, or that Macs include a lot more useful software and less bloat than Windows. Don’t get me wrong, I take the commercials as a light-hearted jab, as they are intended, but some of them bend the truth so much that it creates mistrust.

 

6. Windows Bashing

Apple and Steve Jobs are constantly making jabs at Vista and Microsoft, and Mac users follow suit. That’s understandable, but when Steve Jobs is constantly berating Vista and Microsoft instead of touting the features and advantages of Apple’s own products, it makes Windows users think that Macs don’t have much going for them. I remember watching the 20 or 30 minute Vista-bashing session at the WWDC conference and wondering why Steve Jobs is so insecure that he has to berate the opposition. Can you imagine shopping for a car and having the salesman only talk about what’s wrong with the competition’s cars? This always reminds me of John Kerry, whose entire campaign was about bashing Bush instead of telling you why he was a good candidate himself. It didn’t work for him either. Apple, your products are the best in the industry. Act like it.

 

7. Vista

I’m going to let you in on a dirty little secret, but you need to sit down first. Windows Vista is actually a good operating system! There. I said it. The ugly truth is that Vista is the best operating system Microsoft has ever released, and for many users, it is good enough. That’s right, good enough. I really like Vista. It fixes so many of the little issues that have plagued me for years, and if I had to use Windows, it’s the version I would use. But now that I have spent time with OS X, I could never go back. For Windows users who have never touched OS X, or are resisting Macs for any of the reasons listed here, Vista is the best operating system they have ever used. I know, I pity them too, but all we can do is hope that they see the light eventually.

 

8. Mac Users

Okay, I’m not talking about you or me here, but there are some Mac users out there who have just a little too much love for Apple. When they are shouting (or typing in all caps) about how much better Macs are, they’re not convincing anyone to switch, they are scaring them away. Even well-intentioned Mac users can sometimes get a little carried away. I’ve had many friends lecture me for hours on end that I was stupid not to switch, and all it did was push me further away. In contrast, when I got a chance to sit down and quietly use a Mac, I began to enjoy the experience, and luckily, a friend was smart enough to answer my questions and just let me play for a while, and it made all the difference.

 

Conclusion:

Apple is doing so much right these days. I am sometimes awestruck by their constant stream of good decisions, but there are still so many Windows users unwilling to take the bait. I think it helps to know what we’re up against when we’re trying to convince Windows users to join the Mac side, and I hope I have provided some insight.

[[LaW]Maverick]

for so called "computer experts" you kids don't know how to use google very well.

 

yes, it's not automatic and it's not something that your grandmother could do...but we've already established that you guys aren't my grandmother and theoretically have greater knowledge of how to operate a "personal computing device" than the average joe.

 

I know it also requires you to install the os from a different disc than the one you would purchase off of Amazon, but last time I checked, when you are purchasing an OS you are licensing the right to use it...nowhere does it say that you must install it from the disc you just purchased. (and of course, you could just do it illegally and not purchase it at all...but that's illegal and makes baby jesus kick a puppy...or something)

 

 

example (we do not condone illegal activity)

 

So what you're saying is that Sergent Jobs, the Mac-Nazi will not really let you buy his operating system and install it on whatever machine you want like you can do with Windows (EVEN on Macs) unless you use some fancy method to circumvent his software barriers?

 

Oh yeah, real user friendly.

 

As all of you know, I can't stand Mac...I can't stand it because of the simple fact that Mac wants you to use nothing but Mac things. Curse you for wanting a 3rd party anything! Enjoy your iBrick.

 

However, I will concede a few points as such:

 

1.) Macs look pretty to some people (personally, I find them sterile and boring, but that is just PREFERENCE)

2.) Macs have a simple interface to some people (meh, I don't see how it's any simpler than Windows and have experimented with this on a few people)

3.) Mac notebooks are constructed well, no arguments there, and Dell does suck major nasty things

 

That being said, I prefer the way XP looks in comparison to OSX...not just 'cause I like the functionality, but with a few quick downloads, I can make it look how I want. My quicklaunch bar is every bit as effective as your object dock thingie. But again, that is only PREFERENCE, and I know a lot of you disagree. That's cool with me, and I understand you're point. Who would want to use something on a daily basis that they couldn't stand to look at, right?

 

I knew some people who got a Mac and a PC around the same time. They were older and never really owned a home computer (mid 40's). Within a years time, they sold the Mac and kept the PC because they had one tiny glitch with the Mac and couldn't figure out how to fix it. Whereas, the PC ran smoothly the whole time. They would've called support for the Mac, but it was purchased used, and the warranty was up. The PC was purchased used as well, but they didn't need the warranty because nothing bad happened, and they were able to figure out how to do more things with the PC than they could the Mac. I remember hearing them complain about not being able to figure out their Mac on a regular basis.

 

Mac notebooks=waaaay better than Dell. However, My friends Toshiba works pretty well, feels every bit as solid as the Dell, and cost 'bout $600 less with more powerful stuff in it. My Wife's ASUS laptop feels sturdier than any Mac I've ever handled--hands down, and it cost 'bout 800 dollars less than the comparably sized macbook and also has a lot more power.

 

Things that would make me consider a Mac:

 

1.) Lower price

2.) Let me customize whatever I want

3.) Can I get something a lil' less sterile looking (my PC case looks a heck of a lot sweeter than any Mac (in my opinion)

 

So in closing, I'm glad all of you like your Mac's so much, and I can even understand why you do. However, I hope you can see why some of don't like your Macs and can understand why we don't. :-) Simple as that--as they say, we agree to disagree, but there are good points on both sides though I think the primary differences are asthetics and price. If you like the way the mac looks sooo much better than Windows, and you're willing to shell out the extra bucks and loose some software/hardware support, than that's great for you.

Edited October 6, 2007 by ZesteR
link

[Playaa]

I guess I should clarify a little to avoid confusion (probably too late).

I'm not a Mac fanboy...I'm an OS X and Macbook Pro fanboy (and ipod too I suppose).

 

I could care less what Steve Jobs says.

as for proprietary hardware...I HATED Compaq and Sony back in the day when they had proprietary crap that barely worked...from what I've seen, the proprietary hardware that Apple uses is far from "crap"...so I'm not complaining a bit.

 

I knew some people who got a Mac and a PC around the same time...

you could probably find 50 stories exactly like this...then you could find 50 more stories where the "mac" and "pc" side were switched. This isn't really a good argument.

as for their "one glitch in the Mac they couldn't figure out"...had to be one hell of a glitch if the internet couldn't help them out.

 

funniest part of this whole topic, is that I wouldn't have even called myself a "fan" of Mac and OS X until this topic started. I used to just like posting about it to jab at people in the forums...but now you folks have driven me to love my operating system even more.

[stutters]

I can't stand it because of the simple fact that Mac wants you to use nothing but Mac things. Curse you for wanting a 3rd party anything! Enjoy your iBrick.

where are you getting your bad (and inaccurate) information?

 

That being said, I prefer the way XP looks in comparison to OSX...not just 'cause I like the functionality, but with a few quick downloads, I can make it look how I want. My quicklaunch bar is every bit as effective as your object dock thingie.

our dock "thingie" is there by default. out of the box. no setup. blammo.

 

I knew some people who got a Mac and a PC around the same time. They were older and never really owned a home computer (mid 40's). Within a years time, they sold the Mac and kept the PC because they had one tiny glitch with the Mac and couldn't figure out how to fix it. Whereas, the PC ran smoothly the whole time. They would've called support for the Mac, but it was purchased used, and the warranty was up. The PC was purchased used as well, but they didn't need the warranty because nothing bad happened, and they were able to figure out how to do more things with the PC than they could the Mac. I remember hearing them complain about not being able to figure out their Mac on a regular basis.

this sounds more like a parable than a non-fiction story.

 

Simple as that--as they say, we agree to disagree, but there are good points on both sides though I think the primary differences are asthetics and price.

form + function. one device.

 

loose some software/hardware support, than that's great for you.

hooray for platform independent web apps (now handling 100% of my project management and billing - and developed on a mac, so even you windows users can enjoy. hardware support? 3 year no questions asked warranty (see above on misinformation), expandable pci-e slots, sata is sata is sata.

 

then there's the joy of doing even more funner things (lohwls) like getting lamp to run without complaining, gcc, ssh, sftp, php/zend.

 

 

funniest part of this whole topic, is that I wouldn't have even called myself a "fan" of Mac and OS X until this topic started. I used to just like posting about it to jab at people in the forums...but now you folks have driven me to love my operating system even more.

ditto, except i didn't/don't like the ipod, love my iphone, and want a slim mbp (soon?).

[[LaW]Maverick]

lol, it was wasn't an argument

 

just an example that some people find Windows easier to use and more friendly than they find Mac OSX...that's all

 

Not that one is better or the other :-)

 

Mac's proprietary stuff is behind what 3rd party developers make available for PC's, from what I've seen. For example, I have a desktop at home with an Overclocked Core2Duo Processor (running at 3ghz, which could go higher) and an OC'd 8800 GTX graphics card. I can't get that graphics card in a Mac, and that's the kind of things that ticks me off...

 

oh, and for the record, I still hate Sony...hehehe...Compaq/HP has gotten a little bit better at making computers, but their drivers have gotten worse and worse....

 

Playaa, in all seriousness though, I'm glad you've found an OS that you like so much--seriously. Everyone should be happy with the way their computer works, and if it's OSX that floats your board, or even Ubuntu like ZD, than more power too ya'.

 

Me, I'll stick to Windows, because, like several posts mention, I like the way it looks--I think it's laid out logically, I can customize it, and I don't have problems with it. (I don't remember the last time I had to remove a virus either)

 

 

Edit: My quick-launch didn't require any setup..i'ts just down on the taskbar right next to the start button....yup...if I want to change it, I just drag and drop...not hard at all :-) As far as mac only things? See the article 'bout the iBricks, and remember when they tried to make everyone buy a special adapter or Mac speakers to plug into their computers? I don't think they do that anymore, but sheesh, not being able to buy speakers with a normal stereo jack? I will also re-iterate that you can install Windows on ANY computer now? Why can't I do that with OS-X easily? Why should I have to work around their built-in protection from installing it on a non-Mac branded computer? Heck, I'd even like to give it another shot, but I'm sure as heck not buying a whole Mac computer to do it.

Edited October 3, 2007 by [LaW]Maverick

[dragonfly]

lol

 

I'm done reading this thread - dont have the time or the energy. I'd rather be doing something useful with my time. Linear Algebra, here I come!

[[LaW]Maverick]

lol

 

I'm done reading this thread - dont have the time or the energy. I'd rather be doing something useful with my time. Linear Algebra, here I come!

 

Eww...math...

[ZeroDamage]

I am going to let the insult slide and even the link to an illegal Warez site which should not be posted here. What I will respond to is some of the quotes in the article that has no link posted for reference.

 

1. I could say the same thing about Mac users who know nothing about Windows machines.

 

2. The office: one reason why the Mac has become usable in the office is that Microsoft keeps their office applications up to date for the Mac OS. I know for a fact that if the Macs here did not have Microsoft Office compatible applications, the users would be using PC's instead.

 

3. Tech-savvy people do not wait every 3 years for a total system upgrade. They are like me and they upgrade piece by piece as time goes on. This can not always be the case but if we can do it, then that is what we do. This is not possible with a Mac based system.

 

5. I do not get this one at all. I think the so-called lies in the Mac ads, more people are learning about Macs and are trying them out.

 

6. Same with this. I do not see all the bashing but I do not think it is hurting Apple at all. Most people know that Vista in its current form sucks.

 

7. I disagree; Vista right now is bad. I use it every day and think this.

 

8. I agree.

[[LaW]Maverick]

4. I disagree because the price of Macs is still higher for less component...I'll do a quick comparison:

 

Mac...with the closest hardware I could get - $2,074

ASUS - $1,778

 

Note the graphics card is slightly better in the ASUS as well...more memory. Why would the Mac really cost more? And if you've ever handled that ASUS laptop (they sell 'em at Best Buy) it feels VERY solid and well built (Carbon Fiber) and it's cheaper.

 

But, like I said, if you really like the way the Mac looks and operates, it's worth the extra few hundred bucks.

[akaM2]

i like macs

[boiler]

i like macs

Anonymo likes to train canadian geese to fly over the US and collect intel, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[[LaW]Maverick]

i like macs

Anonymo likes to train canadian geese to fly over the US and collect intel, but that doesn't make it right.

 

 

Hillarious...!

[Allanon]

This is what I think

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7148748849652085555

 

(Note cussing, and yes most people have probably seen this video as well as it's for older macs)

 

 

Just thought I'd pop that in

[[LaW]Maverick]

Ahh...such a classic

[Cujo]

zd, what's so bad about vista? i do feel it is an upgrade to xp in many ways as long as the uac is turned off. i find it's smooth as ice for me although i do have a 5.8 performance rating... stupid cpu holding me back from a 5.9.

 

 

as to the topic, seeing as i only have two computers, my big pc and my asus laptop, a mac would only sit around. as much as i would love to get one to see what all the fuss is about.

 

the desktop i use for pretty much everything, gaming included so a mac replacement isn't an option. the laptop i use for my business and when i'm at a clients house i need maximum compatibility so windows xp is a must.

 

 

 

edit -

oh my, this forum sucks. i hit fast reply to type the below and instead of making a consecutive post it added the below to the above and removed all the paragraphs. zd, can something be done about this???

 

supposed to have been a separate post -

so i went to take a screen shot of my desktop for the show your desktop thread and windows desktop manager crashed. tried it again and it crashed again and now aeroglass is gone. the only real problem i have with vista is various apps crashing aeroglass.

 

so there you have it mac lovers. pressing the print screen button on windows vista will break it. eat your hearts out.

 

edit 2 - i stopped and started the "desktop window manager session manager" (i'm not lying, it's actually called that...) and now print screen works fine. this error must have been in conjunction with something else i've run since windows boot.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Cujo