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To all Members, Kindly post your thoughts on Deadlock's Ban


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So, As the title says, I would like the Members to get a chance to share their view as to whether or not they believe Deadlock cheats, whether or not they think his ban was fair and just, and whether or not they feel that the admins not showing deadlock the evidence they have is okay or not. 


Before the Admins close this thread or post on it, I would like this thread to be specifically for members only. The admins have done their discussion so now I feel that all the members (people who pay and care about this server) to get a chance to voice their opinions. I also have my own and will state it. 


NO HOSTILITY IN THIS THREAD - I can not emphasize this enough. A ban towards someone is a serious thing, if you feel that it was okay, tell us why you feel deadlock cheats, and why he should be banned I don't want people to bash on other peoples opinions, I would like this thread to be something the admins can see and think on and take into consideration the feeling of the people that care.


At the moment, we don't know what exact cheats deadlock is accused of, a general conclusion given was that he used some type of external assistance (it was said in different words, i'm too lazy to go copy paste) :P lol.


My assumption is, probably wallhacks and/or aim assistance, or something that is against his using hunter etc. As these are probably the only things I would/could think to accuse him of.


Okay what I'm about to type next will be my history on the server, deadlock's history on the server, my history knowing deadlock, and my own opinion on this matter not only as a friend, but I know what it is like to get banned for accused cheating without any chance to defend myself... it hurts... it really hurts... I have feelings, being banned just because I was too good is something that no one should have to feel... Especially in a place that they care about... I'll give some TLDR's wherever I can. But i strongly suggest reading everything I have to say. And I'm not that great in the Writing category, so I apologize in advance for grammatical errors and stuff :P


(brief history of myself)

When I first joined this server, I will admit I had a very aggressive/competitive attitude. I don't like being told what to do, or that I should do something differently. I do my own thing and if someone tells me to stop or whatever, I don't like it. I played a long time ago with Deadlock and Dreamz, We were decent already coming to this server because we had previously played in another 10v10 server with points Sky gaming or something I don't remember whatever it was called, the person running the server didn't like me because I was too good (his fault for giving me a west coast server to play on). Anyways, coming here, I immediately took a distaste in some of the admins, after some annoying issues and bans here and their, team stacking accusations, a lot of hate towards charon and clony as well as some other people. I moved past it, I re-evaluated myself and my actions and decided to look past being so competitive and caring about winning all the time. Don't get me wrong, as much as I play to have fun, I still enjoy winning, But stomping is rather boring. Recently (whenever I did play more I mean, atm im busy with school and other things) I have been kind... I try to help out, do my member duties of warning people to not do things against the rules, I'm sure other people can agree that I try to help out. I'm sure some of the admins can agree that my general attitude has changed as well. I still dislike some people, some admins, etc. but I won't ever attack them because it isn't necessary. I paid so that I can have fun with the few friends I have that play on this server, and the few people whom I have come to like and enjoy playing with that aren't exactly friends but I know them and they know me which is enough.


TLDR: I hated admins and people and was an donkey, grew up, moved past my childishness, accepted the rules and accepted behaviors and try to abide by them as best as I can.


Now onto my opinion of whether or not I believe deadlock cheats.


Yes and No, Deadlock is a good friend of mine, and it upsets me that he is better than me, mainly because when I first met the guy and played 4v4's with him he sucked so bad... I mean... he was really bad, I felt like crying when I played with him because he was just so ugh. (he was still somewhat new to the game). After a while, he got better, still not better than me, but he did get better. We moved into the other 10v10 server and he never got to being better than me, but he was getting to be a pretty good player, his understanding was growing and he was actually pretty skilled. Fast forward to gc 10v10, when we started off yes, we didn't have the best start. He ended up spending a lot more time on the server than myself, he adapted to the 100+ ping we get, and understood how to adjust his aim to be better. (I refuse to do this) I accepted that I will not adjust my aim just to be better at 100 ping when I am good at playing at 30 ping. There are times when Deadlock as made me feel and question whether he was or wasn't cheating. But in the end, I know that he is not. Because I can use simply logic to understand that. I know how valves cheat system works, I have cheated when I was 12 years old in counterstrike with some ESP (wallhacks) just to see what it was like. (Childish curiousity) I thought I wasn't ever going to get banned it had already been 2 months, I had spent probably several hundred hours cheating. And then the vac ban hit. And my account got banned. My friends in real life were not as fortunate as me, some of them were banned within 1 month and some within several days. We had our share of fun cheating but in the end valve wins. Deadlock stated he has probably 2000+ hours I don't know the exact number I think it is closer to 2.5k hours in l4d2. If he was cheating... He would have been caught. Some of you may argue against this logic but in the end it is something to consider. At the end of the day deadlock is a really good player if not the best in this 10v10 server. And I understand that some people believe he cheats. But in the end just stop and think it through. 


TLDR: Deadlock used to be really bad, after playing the game for a long time he got better, then after spending even more time he got really good, and then banned for "cheating".


In that brief TLDR, If you play something for a long time, (deadlock is still young btw, in his 20's) he has the energy to still get better. and it shows that he has earned his skill. It has been said before that if you want to truly be good at something, you must spend hours and hours and hours on your craft. Is it not obvious that deadlock has done that? has he not almost consistently done well, with some off days here and their? I know there are admins in this server that have probably spent more hours playing, some people get better than others faster. Deadlock was terrible at cs:go when he first started, I was a long ways ahead of him, and through my teaching him at the beginning so that he doesn't make noob mistakes that I made for a very long time, he was able to understand and adapt at a faster rate. Guidance can increase someones skill faster than that person doing it alone. He is now my equal if not better than me. And I'm glad to have helped him become so good that now we teach eachother. Deadlock ended up hitting Global Elite in cs:go, to those that don't know that is the highest rank achievable in cs:go for matchmaking. L4D2 and cs:go are not entirely different. Both are shooters, both have recoil to consider, you can't just run around spraying at everything and get kills, you have to stand, adjust your aim, and shoot. 


TLDR: Deadlock has spent hours practicing getting better, he put in the time he gets the reward of skill. Logical? yes no?


Alright, Killz, why the hell are you posting on deadlock's behalf?


the answer to that is simple, I would do this for any friend that I know isn't cheating. Not just because he is my friend... but because I know that he is being unfairly treated, and I know how frustrating it is to be treated unfairly. Not being shown the evidence that is taking the 15 dollars he spent the hours he spent on this server down the drain to an abrupt end without any chance of defending himself.


there used to be a time when I joined and I thought MurderinClony was cheating, and I thought I was really sure about it, but I was wrong. I was being salty and upset that someone was better than me and I couldn't comprehend how... Until I did understand, Everyone has a certain playstyle in the server, if you spend enough time not only doing well on your own and understanding the thought process of how others play. You can take advantage of it. I know that deadlock can shoot down boomers fast. So I adjust my playstyle so that if I know I can't boom then I will do something else or change so that I am not giving him free points. And this argument isn't only for deadlock, many people have gotten decent at shooting down rocket boomers. So I have to try harder, boom from weird-er angles, and adjust so that I can do what I want. 


Lets assume deadlock isn't wallhacking but is staring at you through a wall, ask yourself a few questions, are playing any infected that makes noise? Charger, jockey, boomer, smoker, spitter, or did you crouch with your hunter? That alone is enough reason for pre-aiming in that direction. 

Next, are you in a spot people commonly rocket spawn from, or hunt from or use a certain infected from. 

If you are on the parish and you are near a death charge spot, will you not prepare for that ahead of time? the argument is the same for an instance where someone can get a 25 dmg hunter, should I not be prepared for that? 


Anyways, I could go on and on, but I have said a decent amount. Take the time and consider what I have said, to any admins that have read this fully through, put the hate aside, put the jealousy aside, this is a real person, not just some robot on the other end of a computer screen, he has feelings, he cares about playing on this server, he has told me he would be even willing to stream his gameplay and tell you his logic as to why he is doing what he is doing. I could simply watch his gameplay and tell you exactly why he is doing what he is doing at least 90% of the time, the other 10% of the time he is probably going on instinct, which is generally when someone wants to call cheats. Instinct gameplay is the biggest thing people will want to call cheats against, and it is very understandable... But I promise you, all of you in the GC server, a year from now, two years from now, deadlock will never get vac banned from l4d2. Because he doesn't cheat, he doesn't need to. He is good. 


I will hope that admins allow the members of the server to give their voice, Members have all paid, sadly some people become members just to play, some actually care about the server. but everyone has paid some money in support to this server, everyone should at least get a chance to say what they want. If the admins care at all about their server and the people on it, I ask in the kindest way, let only the members reply to this thread, let people say what they want. and at the end of it, re-consider one more time deadlock's ban. Give him a chance to show you his skill on stream. 


And if you still feel that deadlock's ban is going to remain, consider showing him his proof. He deserves at least that, Every person that gets a ban, deserves proof of their ban. There is a reason why a ban needs proof to be posted in the please ban thread. Proof is the only defense to unjust acts. 


So to all members, to anyone that cares. Post your thoughts, my opinion is my own and is shared with some. if you don't agree, give your reasoning, if you have proof please show it. give explanations.


Thank you. ^^ 


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this thread is to see who are deadlock's "friends" and who are his "enemies." 


who would answer aside from his "friends?" lol.


no one wants more enemies on the server.



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my gifted menbership ended a few days ago and my terrible ISP + only 1 server being up as of late(full most of the time too) have kept me from playing much. but i still wana chip in on this.


in all my games played against deadlock, i have never been killed in a way that made me think that he is cheating.

be it sound cues, common spawn spots or models clipping trough corners/textures there was always a logical reason for him to shoot me down.


another point i'd like to make is that while deadlock is hard to get to, he isnt unkillable.

and i cant think of any reason for him, or anybody to cheat for so long and so consistently other than that.

PLUS, the few times he speaks on the servers or here on the forums he is polite, he has never shown any sign of being one those people...


also, when did this happen?




this thread is to see who are deadlock's "friends" and who are his "enemies."

i dont think i have ever talked directly to deadlock besides poking fun at how good he is, yet it anoys me that he was baned because i enjoy the challenge when he is on the server.

also, k1llz asked for no hostilities, please.

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If you truly feel that deadlock should be banned, you can say it. There is no hatred coming towards anything you say. It isn't about being his friend. It is about his performance in the server, was it a well deserved ban and why do you feel that way. Should the admins at least display the evidence they have to support this? etc.

and as anzul said, there is no hostility or any reason for it. 


@Anzul, umm I honestly don't remember, I want to say within a week ago, he responded to their ban, I believe Johnny did the ban, claiming he had sufficient evidence, the evidence was then shown to other admins and the board, and the decision was made. Deadlock was not involved in being able to see the evidence, and aside from being able to try to plea to see it, he was denied in all aspects which simply in my opinion is unfair.


A ban without showing evidence is abuse at least in my opinion, how would you feel if you were banned and had no way to even try to defend yourself... It's hurtful and only leaves anger in a situation where you are basically helpless.

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Great post, Killz!


I'll start off by saying that there have been times in the past where I have questioned whether or not Deadlock cheats to myself, but in the end I've always doubted it. I really do think that he IS THAT accurate when he plays on the servers. There have been moments in the game where a new player says something like, "Deadlock is cheating" or "Deadlock is a hacker" or "look at this guy with his aimbot" I would just laugh at those accusations and point out that "no dude, he's just that accurate. I don't see any cheaters here." Well, something like that anyways. Even when a newer player would question Deadlock's abilities, I've always defended the dude one way or another.


Now as for me believing if Deadlock cheats? Well, I can't really say he does because it's impossible for me to see the evidence the admins have against him where it shows instances where he does cheat or hack. It's all good though. Even though I'm interested, I do NOT have to see the admins' evidence. After all, I'm not entitled to do so. However, I do believe that Deadlock at least deserves to see the demo(s) where the admins believe he cheats. It wouldn't hurt though if he does. I mean, IF he is guilty, then he'll likely be unable to play on the servers again. Deadlock has been around in the servers for a couple of years. I think he knows by now that he should know better than to cheat. It wouldn't do too much damage if he gets at least one last chance to see what he did wrong or not. Overall, I can't really say that Deadlock is innocent or guilty. However, there is an inner part of me that genuinely believes that he is clean.


Now, I don't mean to get slightly off-topic here, but I feel like mentioning this. I've always enjoyed playing Left 4 Dead 2. I remember getting this game on the Xbox 360 a week after it first came out. Considering how many hours Deadlock has been playing this game, I bet he does as well. After a few years of l4d2 on Xbox, I encountered serious lag problems after switching apartments. It was so terrible that playing on the console became unplayable on vs for me. That's when bought this game on PC. Hell, I remember being excited to get the chance to finally play in a 10v10 server. In fact, I got so excited about this, that I joined the servers in June 2014 on my second/third time playing the game on PC with few hours of experience. Ever since then, I have not been disappointed with this honourable privilege to play with you guys. I really do enjoy playing with you all in some shape or form.


Anyways, after quickly following the basic rules of the servers, I finally encountered highly experienced players, such as Deadlock. I remember having such a difficult time playing against players like him. My infected attacks were mostly useless, I used to kill few infected as survivors, and i didn't develop a comfortable play style at all at the time. I wanted someone like Deadlock in my team to make the games easier for me. Hell, there was even a time where I even supported for and asked for scrambles whenever my team was taking a bad beating. If a player like Deadlock was on the opposite team, I'd want him to get swapped over to my side. Why? Because at the time, I couldn't rely on myself to support my team at all. I sucked badly back then, but then again, I probably still do anyways. Anyways, my support for scrambles/swaps died a few months later in October when we played the ever-so-"friendly" Death Toll. I don't remember if Deadlock was in the game, but I do know that I was playing against highly experienced players like him in that campaign. I also remember IHaveNoClueWhatAmIDoing being in that game, someone who is an experienced player and knows Deadlock pretty well I think. As predicted, my team took a massive beating playing against players like Deadlock. In fact, our beating was so awful that there was a scramble that took place in the second chapter. I thought everything would work out fine because there was a scramble that took place, but I was wrong. My new team still performed terribly against the new opposing team, which had players like Deadlock. There was then a second scramble in the third chapter. Problem solved, right? After all, two scrambles should get the job done. Nope. I was still in the team that took a brutal beating, and I noticed that players like Deadlock still remained in the winning team. Before I had to get off that night, I experienced a total of not one, not two, but THREE scrambles. They all succeeded. i never trusted another scramble vote ever again from that point on.


What the scramble scenario has to with Deadlock is that after that game in Death Toll, I realized that if I wanted to try to balance the game against a stronger team, I needed to keep on improving. I needed to learn how to adapt whenever I was competing against a team that had players like Deadlock. I couldn't just rely on scramble votes to solve my problems because there was still a chance that it could fail, and that I could still struggle horribly against stronger players if it did pass. I also didn't want my weaker team to cave in to the scrambles because I think some of my teammates wouldn't learn to improve, or adapt in tough games where they have to keep playing against stronger players. In a way, I've always wanted my teammates that were taking just as much as a beating as I did against players like Deadlock to learn from their mistakes, and be able to compete more effectively against players like him. I've always believed that whatever team I was in had the potential to become better players than they were before the game for a campaign got started. Hell, even when I felt negativity towards a weaker team that I am in, I still believe in their potential. See, part of the fun is being able to give the other team their comeuppance successfully. It really does pay off when you're able to improve in some areas of your gameplay, use teamwork when you're in the weaker team, and be able to kill the stronger team after being so resilient with your infected attacks or survivors' survival. Right now, I feel confident and comfortable with the way I play in the servers. I have players like Deadlock to thank because if it weren't for guys like him to destroy me repeatedly again and again, I wouldn't have kept pushing myself to improve in the servers at all. I probably would have been worse off if it weren't for playing in tough games and for playing against players like him.


As for the ban, I personally believe it would be a shame if Deadlock did receive a permanent vacation from this server completely because I think he'll continue to inspire other players to improve even more in the future. I think he's got plenty of helpful and wise advice he has for newer players to help them out in the servers. After all, I believe that the more players there are that improve, the less likely teams will seem "stacked" to many of us. Hell, Deadlock is probably one of the few players responsible for the amount of hunter players that learned how to use those invisible wall jumps in the maps and how to do those ceiling jumps. I would personally do it myself, but I just can't be bothered to take such a high risk doing those hunter stunts for such low reward, but that's just me. There are still more than a handful of players that managed to learn those hunter jumps and Deadlock is probably one of the few players responsible for that. Assuming that he is innocent, he'd be great for newer players to learn from.


For the record, I've always envied and killed to have accuracy like Deadlock has. Now I don't know whether his accuracy is due to his skills, the lasers, any form of cheating, or even from his experience in Counter Strike. However, I do believe he's one of the few players I know that will still perform successfully and be just as accurate if he didn't have laser sights. I think he really is that skillful. I want to keep improving my aim as survivor so that maybe I can aim at least half as good as Deadlock does.


I don't know Deadlock personally, but i do know him as a member and that's good enough for me. Hell, he's one of the members that I've enjoyed chatting with on Gandalf's Twitch channel. If he isn't banned and if he does stream in Twitch, then I'll be personally looking forward to have some fun in his channel, especially if more members were to view and chat along.


Anyways, it's been like a couple of hours writing this so I'll just close with this final statement: Hopefully, Deadlock being unbanned would be fortunate because he is a valuable player on the servers, but if it turns out that he is guilty by the admins' evidence, then I just want to say that it's been fun playing with you dude.

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It's my first time posting on the forums and this was just really bugging me that i needed to say something as well. 

Give the guy a chance. He clearly enjoys playing on the 10vs10 servers. So why would he jeopardize that by cheating? Specially, wouldn't be so keen on proving his innocence.

A person caught cheating would just shrug it off and move on but here you have Deadlock pleading with you to let him prove to you all that he DID NOT CHEAT.

There are also plenty of other players just as good as Deadlock. So, if we're going to start banning people for being "good" might as well ban them too


( please excuse my grammar)

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I don't belive he cheats untill I see proper evidence. I don't understand the point of not showing the evidence of him cheating to everyone either, it only makes it seem like there isn't any. He never even seemed fishy imo, just a player with good game sense and good aim.

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This is not a situation of admins vs members regarding cheating.  Admins are generally not actively looking for cheaters.  Most cheating accusations come from all of you.  Over the years, there are countless accusations and demos from members (and non-members), accusing people of cheating.  We view or look in to them all.  Most of the time, we do not agree that the person is actually cheating, however sometimes we believe they are.  We might then get additional information or demos, we generally take time and give the person the benefit of the doubt until we are sure.  If virtually everyone looking at the information agrees the person is cheating, they are banned.  We have banned people for cheating and after originally denying it, they then admitted it.  We don't normally post that information as it does not help to have a hundred people giving their opinions on it.  We also do not want to promote any type of cheat.  In addition to those that were banned for cheating, which you would find out about, there are some that were using other ways to give themselves advantages.  We might tell them directly not to use them anymore, but not tell everyone, as again, we do not want to promote it. 


To post asking for people about their opinions on whether one player cheats or not, doesn't help anyone.  How many people will admit they think someone is cheating, in a public forum?  I will tell you that very good players have received many, many cheating accusations from members.  I can also tell you that it is not always the admins and the more average players that make the accusations, it is also the top players that accuse other players of cheating. 


We will always protect the identities of anyone that wants to send in a complaint or accusation.

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The fact that we only talk about bans in the ban forum and It is clear in the rules on the forum, and yet once again, people think the rules don't apply to them shows me a lot along with Admins and the board members of how much a lack of respect certain members have here.  

The Ban is being reviewed.  Along with other new Demos just submitted.  

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@Carlos, Thank you for taking the time to write all that, I know how it feels to write a very long thing lol... my fingers were hurting I hadn't realized how long my post actually was.


@TheDude, my apologies, I honestly didn't know there was a members only section.. :( lol


@Peanut, My intentions are not to pit members against admins, I did respectfully ask for admins to be left out of this discussion, It had not even been open for over 24 hours.


Regardless, I (in my original post which is a public post yes?) stated that I did think clony cheated. So yes, some people like myself will say openly that we believe a good player is cheating, however, how I felt about a person when I first joined the server versus how I feel about it now after seeing other players and not only clony doing that well made me changed my opinion. I can also list finlanderi as one of the players I felt that cheated, I didn't understand how he did so well with 200 ping, but he did it. And so I moved past my cheating accusations and turned to acceptance.


@Turbo, I believe the last response I saw from Yourself and Johnny?  I apologize if I'm calling out the wrong person. Was that the ban was permanent and that was the end of the discussion from the Admins side, Thus my reasoning for allowing the members to voice their opinions on the matter. I wouldn't go out of my way to do this for anyone. But there are a handful of players that are very very good in your server. And I would vouch for any one of them that they aren't cheating, however, for Deadlock I go further than that, Because over the past few years I have known him, I have seen a steady incline in skill that goes along with my logic and belief that, Spending hours on something will only make you better as long as you keep aiming to be better than you are everyday. And I see that in deadlock daily. 


@Turbo, one more thing. I honestly did not know where to post this topic, so i just put it in the general discussion, this discussion is not simply about deadlocks ban, but also for future players that may or may not be punished unfairly. I feel that if any player who has spent as much time or a significant amount of time on your server is being banned, and they feel that it is for the wrong reason, they should most definitely see what they are being banned for. 


I recall a scenario when I was having a lot of fun in the server, and I was a tank, I believe Dreamz? was the last person alive? He is a close friend of mine and I was enjoying beating on him with my tank, the round was practically over, he was the last remaining survivor, so I was just whacking away at him and any infected that hopped on him. Without ANYONE asking me to stop, or giving me a warning, I was kicked for griefing. That is an example of abuse in my opinion. An admin can take literally less than 20s to tell me to let the infected kill him or you will get kicked, I would have stopped, During the game I didn't realize I was ruining anything for anyone else, the player I was attacking was running BACKWARDS towards his saferoom, thus not progressing at all. So I wasn't intentionally griefing while attacking him, I just wanted to be the person that killed him. Is that not the case when a hunter takes someone elses smoker and kills that person? My point being, warnings, giving the player a chance, showing the evidence to players that have respected the rules and followed them is simply the right thing to do, IN MY OPINION. others may feel differently.


I don't mean to be a thorn in any admins side... so I apologize if this post has upset any admins, and I understand that it would indeed be difficult if you had to go through posting all evidence for all the perma-bans. But in this case, for a player such as deadlock, I feel that he has earned the right to see the evidence, or at least try to show you with streamed proof that he isn't cheating. or using any external assistance.


Again, I'm sorry if I jumped around on what I was saying here and their, I'm not the best with words, and my mind has many points to say that are here and their, and that's probably why I only got B's on my rough drafts..... :P anyways, If the ban is still being reviewed, I am glad for that. I do wish that members will still continue to voice their opinions, even if the words provide logical reasoning towards deadlocks ban. Myself, Deadlock, And I wish others will not show any hatred, or distaste to anything said. As I stated, this is specifically a friendly discussion. Say what needs to be said, provide reasoning, and voice your opinion.


Thank you, and if this discussion needs to be moved to like a members only area or what not, please do move it where it needs to be, I'm truly sorry my intentions were not to go against rules and place this somewhere it should not have been, I honestly didn't know :(

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For the record, I have been asked to demo and view many top players such as Elite, Elias, General, Yortz,  and more.  I have spent dozens of hours playing oddly to record and track stuff.  Using some tools we have.   In the end, I have defended almost 99% of the players here.  So the general rule of thumb is, you are innocent till proven guilty by our admin group.    I also appreciate your effort on this topic an community and while I understand why you are doing this, I would just wait now till Peanut reviews with his peers as a final review.  

It can stay here for now since Peanut did not move it.  

Edited by Garychios
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For the record, I have been asked to demo and view many top players such as Elite, Elias, General, Yortz,  and more.  I have spent dozens of hours playing oddly to record and track stuff.  Using some tools we have.   In the end, I have defended almost 99% of the players here.  So the general rule of thumb is, you are innocent till proven guilty by our admin group.    I also appreciate your effort on this topic an community and while I understand why you are doing this, I would just wait now till Peanut reviews with his peers as a final review.  

It can stay here for now since Peanut did not move it.  


what????? lol are you sure? I really doubt your analytical skill.
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It has been a while since I played on this server, but I used to be one of those guys who would accuse many of the good players on this server of cheating.  That being said, after many demos I've taken and many times I've played with them, I now know that it was usually because they had played on this server for so long that they pretty much know what to expect in every situation while playing survivors.


Now there were occasions that I would accuse "new" players of cheating based on how well they were playing compared to our best players.  Some of those players I would research to see their stats on the server, as well as how many hours they played in the game overall.  One common factor is that these new players had less than 100 hours played, with a very high headshot ratio, on a 10v10 server they have rarely played on (maybe 20 or less hours).  Those were the people that generally cheat because they are on a new server, no one recognizes who they are, and play for maybe an hour at a time. 


Regular players who cheat tend to show a drastic increase in stats and skill.  I myself have never really improved much over the last 4 years since starting this game, but I DO get very competitive.  Although my competitiveness will not DRASTICALLY change my stats.  That is the key factor in determining if a regular player cheats.

Also, another side note:  Players with a prior VAC ban most likely have and will cheat again.  It's an unfortunate trend.  I think once the review is accomplished, the admins will definitely let you know if deadlock is cheating or not.  Also, I would personally love to see the demo as I never get a chance to see a decent demo of someone using wallhacks or aimbots (other than the funny youtube videos of blatant aimbotters).

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Making fun of Turbo won't get you anywhere. You should be glad he's been the only one posting of us admins publicly to everyone else. So don't give me a reason.

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At the moment, we don't know what exact cheats deadlock is accused of, a general conclusion given was that he used some type of external assistance (it was said in different words, i'm too lazy to go copy paste) lol.


Well then I'm too lazy to read this whole thing that you typed out, which was more effort than just copy-pasting an extra line or too.



Deadlocks ban is being reviewed by admins, we cannot do anything more, the only thing this topic is going to do is to divide the community even more than it already is.


Wait for his results. If he is deemed a cheater, then so be it, we cannot change that. Due to the nature of this event, there is no way for deadlock to give undeniable proof, not even having an actual board member or admin walk over to his house and thoroughly inspect his computer for anything "hack" related. This kind of thing would have to be set up and obviously by the time the board member or admin got there, all traces would be gone.


No matter what is said here, the admin's decision is final. It is just like a miniature judicial system, and although the judicial system is not perfect, it works very well for what it is supposed to do. If you are given undeniable evidence or evidence that leads to only one outcome, and it points to him being guilty of whatever crime he committed, would you let it slide simply because he said he didn't do it? Even if his friends said he didn't do it but gave no evidence supporting their claim that he didn't? No. You would sentence him for his crime. This goes the same way on the other side, if he is not proven guilty, then he is innocent. Let the "jury" finish this.

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@Clony, Again, my intentions are not division, But I do appreciate the input you have given.
And yes, I can agree the system isn't the greatest, it works somewhat and occasionally falters. But is it too late to ever have any potential change in a system?

In America itself, the country has come a long way, From abolishing slavery to accepting homosexuals. Change is good, it isn't worth letting laziness get the better of us to change a system so that it could prove beneficial to others.

I'm not asking this simply for deadlock, but for any player in the future that is put into his position. Anyways, my intentions weren't to bring any politics into this, Simple an example. Perhaps a system isn't the greatest, but it is never too late to change, update, and adapt.

But you make an interesting point about external assistance? I am curious as to what kind of actual physical assistance he could be getting that would be giving him an advantage in the game that would be considered unfair, if you could elaborate on that?


and Thank you for your post.

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this is not a democracy. there is no voting on our admins or voting on bans. there is no voting to change our rules. We do our best to listen to user input and we support our admins in their findings. We are aware admins make mistakes and that they are human. We are aware players are human and they make mistakes. We are aware board admins are the antichrist and the best ever.


in this case we have reviewed multiple pieces of evidence with caution and have come to the conclusion he is using assistance. I would love to review the evidence again, but unfortunately  I literally have 1 hour a day for gc.. and so far that hour has been wasted reading this thread which has no bearing on our final decisions.


So please, keep posting stuff for me to read. Because I really love not fixing server 2, and not upgrading to the new sourcemod version, and not reviewing the evidence in this case

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You all know me. I have never banned without solid evidence. I am probably the most objective admin in GC. So know that the ban was done with serious consideration and, of course, proof. Now this post, it helps Deadlock in no way whatsoever, I assure you. NO WAY WHATSOEVER. All the members of the GC community posting their opinions here won't affect how we review the evidence or the outcome. Now that you decided to shine a spotlight on this ban, more evidence has come forward and we are currently reviewing those too. Well the others are anyways. As far as showing Deadlock the evidence, I will be honest with you and say that I have no issue with it, and that is my personal opinion. All of my bans have evidence and this one has quite a handful. However, for certain reasons the admins may or may not allow such disclosure so it's not my call to make alone. This post also does not affect that decision. I commend your efforts to support your friend but the only thing that matters at this point is we have much evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt Deadlock has cheated on the servers and in the interest of thoroughness, we will re-review both old and new evidence, and any more that comes in.


The very nature of cheating can never be proven 100%, unless the cheater shows us personally the installation of the cheats and their active use. So that leaves my burden to prove the effects of the any cheats in the form of unnatural, atypical gameplay even beyond the level of a "pro" player such as Deadlock. With the evidence I had and have now, I had appropriately justified the ban and, in fact, even further prove to my peers beyond a doubt that Deadlock cheated. Verbose anecdotes, analogies, opinions and verbal assurances do not prove beyond ANY doubt that Deadlock has NOT cheated.

Edited by MeJohnny
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First and foremost, I would like to state that I specifically asked admins to NOT post on here. There was no aggression, no hostility, until it was provoked BY an admin. furthermore, are members not allowed to ask for the opinions on one another? we can't do it in the server, because that is for gameplay, hence my bringing about this discussion FOR members on the forums. 


@crasx, Indeed it isn't a democracy, however your following statements are false, rules have been implemented that were probably a voted on change were they not?

Example, a ban on attempting to practice deadstopping hunters

Example, a ban on practicing hunters


Indeed both these can be a form of griefing as players are helping the enemy team out by either not attacking or getting attacked for free. In any case, these were changes made and im sure it was basically a full on majority vote for it. 


@crasx, Continuing, you state that you do your best to listen to user input, I believe that is what this discussion is about, however it seems like you are not wanting this discussion to occur.


I do apologize for not making this in the members only section, however, Would that have stopped admins from posting here? If so, then my apologies, feel free to move it. 

You state he is using assistance? What kind of assistance? Aimbot? where is the proof? 

At the end of the day, This seems to me like deadlock has gotten simply too could and frustrated admins simply can not handle playing against him, and probably some other players and perhaps he is demotivating other players from wanting to play because of his playstyle.

I will agree that deadlock's behavior probably isn't the best, however, out of game I can say what I want and whatever I want about other players and admins. I do not bring that into the gameplay (at least not anymore). I wasn't the best apple when I started, but I adjusted, I can do my swearing without activating my mic, I am not obligated to like every single player, and I know admins aren't the fondest of me. But in the game, we play as a team and that is that. Deadlock is a team player and does his best by killing the infected or securing enough points for a tank, etc.


If you say there is no point in this thread, then there is no reason to waste an hour reading it.


@Johnny This post is a discussion for members as I just stated. It hurts that all the admins that seem to want this ban in effect are the ones ignoring my request and posting here. 


Based on your reasoning, the moment a player becomes too good. They will be suspected of cheating and inevitably banned.


A long time ago when I was 12, I was stupidly good at counterstrike 1.6, However, I never made it anywhere competitively, simply because I was honest about my age to people and they felt that my being so good when I was so young I was cheating. Now, don't get me wrong, When I was 11, I was curious as to what cheats were like and I tried them out because why not? I paid my price when my account got banned, I was young and dumb and was just trying things out. I had to buy a new account, I don't come from a wealthy background, so having to pay for another account was enough for me to not need to cheat. Besides I ended up getting really good as it was. I never ended up going anywhere competitively because people always thought I cheated. Fast forward into the future a bit. There was a server in CS 1.6, that went by the name of I believe SP. I don't recall now what it stood for, however, basically, if you were too good,you would get banned for "cheating". They had a forums to appeal. But it didn't matter, the moment you were banned you were gone. It was disheartening to be banned in my 2nd day of playing on that server. Deadlock has been here for two years with a progression in his skill. That progression only occurs overtime. 


It frustrates me as his friend as well as someone who paid to play on this server knowing that. Once someone gets too good, they will get banned. Now there are some people that come in on new accounts and do exceptionally well, sometimes they are just smurf accounts and sometimes they are just new players, THAT is when the question of cheats comes into play. 


Anyways, as you stated this won't change any of your minds. 


A final note to all members and future members, I hope you don't get put on the opposite end of a ban you don't deserve. It hurts johnny, I truly wish you knew. 


I am done on this discussion.


Thank you admins for showing me that you don't care about your members by posting here and ignoring my request. 

Thank you members for posting with thoughtful responses. I wish more members would have posted with reasoning for deadlock cheating and using this "assistance" you so speak of.


Have a good day.

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Now this post, it helps Deadlock in no way whatsoever, I assure you. NO WAY WHATSOEVER. All the members of the GC community posting their opinions here won't affect how we review the evidence or the outcome. 

That is not entirely true Johnny since it at least makes you think you made a mistake and have to re-review the evidence. Most certainly won't affect your decision but we can at least show our support. 

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