Do Regulars deserve a verbal warning? banned

[Slaphappy]

sorry i'm tired and don't have time to read everything eveyone posted but here be my 2 cents. Mind you this is coming from someone who is the poster child of bad temper. If your a reg and you break the rules there is no verbal you know better you got PO'd thats your fault. Slap them with a fat temp ban and they'll figgure it out...I don't mean and hour or two i'm talking like a week. That will wake ya up real fast. For repeat offenders...I'm a big fan of 3 strikes your out...with a side note of two strikes and your in really deep dodo.

However there can be NO exceptions...none....nothing...first born...sorry your out.

 

Also I don't know if it fits in this topic or not but I for one would like to see less abuse of admin controls over stupid/minor stuff. If's someones spawn camping....do we A. slap them around for 10 mins. B. Rocket them and all have a good laugh or C. have the admin warn them that there is an objective and if they don't comply give them the kick/or few min temp ban.

I'm a fan of C myself though thats not always what happens. In fact I'd even take it a step father than that. If a person is out gunned or last one left or some such thing, say a CT with very little time left and the bomb is ticking with 5 T's on it. The CT says I dont' have time and even if I did it take some mad skillz to pull this off, so i'm gonna sit my but down and save this para I just spent my life savings on. Then the CT's proceed to chew the guy out for not trying to defuse. Or better yet once he sits down in behind his box an admin proceeds to rocket him. Ya some people may like to go out in a blaze of glory...I'm one of them (though normaly I just shoot up the wall real nice and die) but some people are more conservative even campers. Is that reason enough to just rocket them?

 

my 2 cents

[Fatty]

but some people are more conservative even campers.  Is that reason enough to just rocket them?

This is one of those times when you ask: pub or match?

 

Then again, I got yelled at by Mag during our match yesterday for hiding as a T and saving my glock.

[Mini_Me]

<eyes fatty's explorer...looks at pack of smokes....grins....walks away >

[DJ Premier]

<eyes fatty's explorer...looks at pack of smokes....grins....walks away >

[Lunk]

<Lunk continues as he levels his M4a1 at the crowd.. "Anyone care to disagree?!">

 

Thanks for the levity Rev.

[Lunk]

Probably all of them but i dont see any admissions of mistakes coming from your neck of the woods which i'm sure irritates some ppl.

Looky Here

[gOOters]

<reads thread...bites own tongue off...looks down at bloody tongue in hands...runs crying to the doctor>

[Mmmm Sanders]

I guess my point is when some1 intentionally avoids the swear filter it merits a kick for the simple fact that they tries before avoiding the filter only to see stars as their typed text. Is that right or wrong? Now if they say something on voice com yeah i usually say hey watch your language. If they dont acknowledge me then my next reply is so-n-so did you hear me?

 

I think this is one of the reasons i get along with alot of you people online. I UNDERSTAND THE RULES THEREFORE I DONT BREAK THEM AND DISRESPECT OTHER GUILDS ON THEIR SERVERS!

 

DJ i just dont see any gray areas in this topic and i dont understand how you your argument is valid. I like you as an online player you always seem to respect people online when your playing. Your right Mmmm are the ones with the lead pipes but most cases were only swinging them in self-defense. If they avoid the filter you should be kicked because the first time they typed the text it came out blocked.

 

I can name names of people in other guilds who repeatedly avoid or try to bend the rules but that is getting off the topic and this isnt the right time or place for it.

 

We have always gotten along with doh your guild is full of great players with class and respect for others. I'm just having a hard time understanding you debating this topic DJ. Please Aim me in private if you want to show your true feelings without getting flamed or explain it to me on the forums the choice is yours either way i respect your input but just help understand. Why? (from you) Did we do something to you that really irked you? Is there a way we could get you to agree with what we're trying to accomplish here? I'm asking these questions for the simple reason of DOH being a big part of this community, a very respected guild whom carry themselves with class, and you being the only one from the guild who debates alot of the rules we're trying to instill on this server. Cane has even started popping up again after the big dispute he had with fatty i thought he would never come back (its great to see him back) . DJ you hardly ever play here is there a reason? Is there something you want to say but you dont want to start an argument? If so say it so we can move past this and get back to having fun with one another.

[Magruter]

8 people viewing this thread right now...

[Guest zerodamage]

oh btw, when i talk about swearing, i am referring about the mic. Avoiding the filter is not a mistake.

[TheBugs]

i hate getting involed in these weird debates. I think a simple warning would do fine for ALMOST everyone. They breeak it again the temp ban or something. If they do it repetidly for a while... then ban.

 

If a loser comes in and Tks people everyround kick him. if he comes back and does the same thing ban him.

 

ok, im done.

[ConGregation]

I think everyone is closer in thought than it appears. Im not going to add anything to the debate. These threads are GREAT for post count boosting.

 

Also, I really think DJ doesnt have it out for Mmmm, Sanders. Maybe but I dont think so. And I appreciate his ability to debate with ideas rather than threats or insults (except for the time he offered his WONID so we could ban it but I dont hold it against him )

[Magruter]

In a majority of the cases I issue a verbal warning for voicecom, i've slipped. Outside of CS I swear not alot, but it comes out... I play CS after a couple roostertails, i've slipped... People have caught me, we laugh and go on playing... I normally will do that same with regulars and others who slip... Really all i like is an apology. Is that alot to ask for?? Just the fact that they know they did something wrong... It works for me, water under the bridge.. I will rocket, jedi, slay, ban, kick, tk, slap, etc... if you bypass the filter when typing.... I HATE THAT!!!! It's there for a reason...

[Dennis]

I would like to say that on the [i AM] servers we dont put up with anything from anyone. Just the other day i gave a ban out to someone who had been around for a long time and was even in our clan at one point. And it has gotten to the point where we dont ban by wonid now. We ban by IP and subnet. If your a reg on a server there should be no reason for you not to know the rules. If you are new to a server and u find out there is a swear filter ( u type a bad word and it doesnt show up ) then it must be there for a reason. Our clan believes in a zero tolerance for things liek this. If anybody wants to know just ask [Mmmm]MrX he has been on our server a lot now and im sure he has seen me ban people w/o a warning. If you want to keep the bad out you have to enforce things and lay down the rules.

[White Knight]

See male model, that is where i totally disagree with you...of course, its your server and you can do what you want.

 

Intolerance for mistakes is a major problem in our society and I believe here we have a very good example of it. I know we are all generalizing the situation here, but taking yours (banning a long time reg) really removes the positive they add to the community and paint you as intolerant of imperfection...begging me to ask the question...are you perfect? Would it have been to much to ask them to chill, leave for the night, give them a verbal warning or something like that? If they had been playing on your server for a long time, then you are bound to have known them almost personally (well, as well as we can know anyone via the internet). Would it have been too much trouble? I'm sure the person was simply having a bad day...we all have them. No one single person on this planet is perfect except me (<---joke). If you realize the fact that you may make mistakes then you must realize that others can do the same. I'm sure you have had a bad day and said/acted some ways you shouldn't have on the server...which makes me ponder whether you have ever had a bad day, shortened the leash with which you normally allow players without them knowing it, and banned some people who otherwise wouldn't have been banned. Shouldn't that be grounds for you banning yourself and your ip subnet?

 

Of course, from my leadership training in the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M, I also am drawn to look at this type of situation as a leadership challenge. Previous to coming on this server with its stringent no cussing rules I would not have..but having noticed an improvement in myself over the few short months here (in my cussing), I realize that this is exactly the case. You may draw the line in the sand and call all those below it failures (those that cuss here or whatever). That is the easy thing to do...gives you less trouble...they deserved what they got...right? Or (and this is a challenge) you realize the fact that not everyone has had the advantages in life that you have, the ethical/moral/religious upbringing that states that these actions are wrong, or the chance to learn it later. And you can take it as a small simple thing you can easily do to show some tolerance (which every single religion in the world preaches) and strive to help your fellow man. Maybe by giving them a few verbal warnings, just as simple as hitting your mic button and asking them not to do that, you will have made an impression upon them that improves them as a person, however slightly.

 

I am sorry if I appear to be coming after you personally. I am not. I am simply attempting to take the example you have drawn (intolerance for any misdeads on your server) and discussing it.

 

I believe that no single person is perfect (God/Jesus/Allah/Jehovah/Shiva/Giaia, not being a person of course). With that as a basis of reasoning it is very easy to come up with 3 simple conclusions.

 

1. Not all people have had the upbringing in life that teaches us not to cuss, or to control our tempers, or whatever. It is our challenge as those that socially interact with these people to help them to understand that these actions are not socially acceptable in modern society...and specifically on this server in general. Banning them teaches them nothing.

 

2. Everyone makes mistakes. Even a regular that has played on a server for 10 years (<---exageration) will occassionally slip and let an F word fly. I've heard my mom do it before...and I can count the times on one hand that I have heard my mother cuss. In the context of this server, a simple warning is all that this calls for.

 

3. Everyone has bad days. Understanding the way that you act/feel when you have a bad day gives enlightenment to what others experience. In the context of this server, maybe someone with a bad day deserves a little extra rope and a few more warnings, then a day ban. Outright banning them will not help them relieve their stress (as many people use this game) but multiply it and remove their future stress relief, as well as remove the future positive that they bring to the communtiy.

 

Wow...I just wrote a book...

 

I guess summation of my essay is that everyone one deserves a break.

"Let he who is without sin, throw the first stone"

-John 8:7

Edited June 27, 2003 by White Knight

[ConGregation]

I had an epiphany the other day. Actually it was a couple of weeks ago. I joined Fox when it was on Iceworld. There was three or four other guys on there. One was a reg (forgot who) and none were an admin.

 

Im playin a bit. But this one teamate pushed my buttons. For a few rounds he would follow me around and put single bullets into me. Killed me once but normally just pot shotted me constantly. I ignored him and continued to do miserably due to low health. Finally I had enough. At round start I grab the AK and just lit into him. My other teamate was between us in the middle getting shot and one of my bullets clipped him and killed him. I stand breathing heavily over his dead body and realized what I had done. I had just TK'ed my entire team. The other reg was on the other team saying "rev?" I try to focus my eyes on something but they keep darting everywhere. The only thing they will focus on is the blood on my uniform. I hear another "rev?". I sit down heavily and try to compose myself. One thought jumps into my brain... "I am ban material". And in the fashion of a life flashing before you eyes I see everything. The "you are banned from this server" message. The subsequent posts in the forums. My shame. The tarnished reputation.

 

I realized, again, how it feels to NOT have admin powers. How it is so much easier to do "the wrong thing" than it is to leave. How easy it is to slip up even knowing the rules and being a "reg".

 

That is still a different situation than someone constantly abusing privileges. I spose you would have to deal differently with that. But I spose that's because I have never constantly broken the rules.

[mrX]

Just a little in defense of what "BS".... er.... "Black".... er.... "Spire" er.... now "MaleModel" (what do we call this guy?) has posted:

 

There is a bit of a difference b/w what is zero tolerance on the [i AM] server and what was happening in Trop. I have seen more warnings than bans on [i AM]'s server for simple slips like curses, whining, etc. It's the guys that attack each other (not in game cause FF is off there) but in other ways, ways that the average joe would never do. You know the "internet tough guys". Or the ones that are just being a huge disturbance. I may be wrong in this, but that's what I've seen while playing there. I've also seen a great atmosphere for fun and playing there.

 

I've only seen one banning that I can think of on [i AM]'s server without a warning. The reason I bring it up is b/c I about fell outta my chair laughing when it happened. The guy did something, can't remember what, and MaleModel comes over the mic "ooooooh, you didn't wanna do that" in that halflife scientist tone of voice. So funny.

 

Anyways, I am working on a warning system. There will be no doubt when a player is warned that they saw the warning and some of this stuff (maybe not this exact issue) will hopefully be resolved.

[DJ Premier]

DJ i just dont see any gray areas in this topic and i dont understand how you your argument is valid. I like you as an online player you always seem to respect people online when your playing. Your right Mmmm are the ones with the lead pipes but most cases were only swinging them in self-defense. If they avoid the filter you should be kicked because the first time they typed the text it came out blocked.

my argument really has nothing to do with kicking offenders. It has to do with strict intolerance against those who have proved in the past that they are generally respectful individuals. Fatty mentions that visitors must show respect first. I completely agree. But we are not talking about that. We are talking about, for example, [DOH]DJ Premier playing in trop on D2 and if, for instance rev's exampe, I slip up, I will receive a permanent ban, regardless of circumstance. Then I'm forced to come grovel in the banned forums and try and explain myself. Hmmm, will I have a bad feeling in my stomach? Probably. Isn't it a better scenario to just yell "DJ, what in the world are you doing?!?" in the game? Do you think that if you came to foxtrot and you did something horrible that I would ban you? No. Why? Because you are a regular in my eyes. I'd go to GREAT lengths to understand where your actions may have come from. Why? Because I enjoy your company like I enjoy the company if many other regulars. My point again is Mmmm indifference, insensitivity and disrespect for those who have repeatedly shown sensitivity and respect towards them but may have skewed from the road once in a while (damn those emotions, they are good for nothing). Indifference in that the regular has played with them for THREE years, then they make a stupid mistake and then their forum id is deleted removing their post count of 3000 and perm banned from the server. Where is the nobility in that? That causes a LOT of negative feelings towards Mmmm, not only by the person it happened to but those around him as well and it just spirals from there. Ppl start getting into groups formulating bad assumptions about the "tyrant" and so forth.

 

Everyone here is so caught up on the bad attitude piece that they dont see what the core problem is. Why stare and analyze the symptom when we all know some of the causes?

 

How many times did I have to hear "if you don't like it, then get out" comments directed at me and the other folks in the community? How many times do I have hear "I could always just ban you" directed at generally good natured players? How many times do I have to see someone we all know show up in the banned forums, forced to beg for forgiveness for possibly minor infractions?

 

Too many.

 

But alas,

 

It may seem like it but I am not against you. If I was, I'd spend my days more productively and not come back. The reason I come back REPEATEDLY and argue is because I am WITH you. So far, few have been able to articulate problems that have surfaced over the past 6 months so I am here to do the job. If it results in me getting banned but things get better as a result, then its all worth it to me.

 

 

I can name names of people in other guilds who repeatedly avoid or try to bend the rules but that is getting off the topic and this isnt the right time or place for it.

 

repeat offender? get rid of em, for good. But lets be honest, how many times a year do you have a really bad day. Let's say 10% of those days you play CS and 1% of those days you have a screw up on the server. Is that a repeat offender? No, a person deserving of a PERM ban (we are not talking about kicks/rockets/slaps) are those who repeat for the sake of repeating and to push limits.

 

 

DJ you hardly ever play here is there a reason?

yes. see above. Generally, I go in under alias when I see that you are playing. I try talking to you from time to time under that alias but u rarely respond.

 

Is there something you want to say but you dont want to start an argument?

 

yes, but maybe another time. I seriously have fun playing when I see players like you on the server. Why? Because I don't expect anything negative from you. I know you aren't actively seeking to flex admin muscle. You have a more laid back approach. You just play the game and take care of trouble if its a big deal.

Edited June 27, 2003 by DJ Premier

[Mmmm Sanders]

That was a nice reply DJ. I understand where your coming from and now i understand your argument. I cant ensure you we'll always have a great time or that an admin will always act on their best behavior. What i can do is hope you have a fun time whenver you stop in and play on trop.

 

On another note whenever trop has a map i dont like, instead of saying something negative about a map i just leave therefore they change the map to a more popular choice or they play their map of choice with a half-empty server.

 

I know whenever someone avoids the swear filter i always ask them to stop avoiding it followed up with a ty kind sir. After that it usually requires some form of action to be taken that always escalates into something negative.

[DJ Premier]

That was a nice reply DJ. I understand where your coming from and now i understand your argument. I cant ensure you we'll always have a great time or that an admin will always act on their best behavior. What i can do is hope you have a fun time whenver you stop in and play on trop.

 

On another note whenever trop has a map i dont like, instead of saying something negative about a map i just leave therefore they change the map to a more popular choice or they play their map of choice with a half-empty server.

 

I know whenever someone avoids the swear filter i always ask them to stop avoiding it followed up with a ty kind sir. After that it usually requires some form of action to be taken that always escalates into something negative.

I dont think anyone would expect perfect behavior from admins. No one is perfect. Admins, regulars, noobs, experts, etc. I guess that's the gist of it all. I think what you are saying is completely exceptable.

 

I guess it boils down to what kind of environment do you want to have. I prefer to look at it this way...

 

I'm a buddy of yours and you are a buddy of mine (in online terms) and when we see each other on a server, we play and we have fun. The only difference between you and me and how we treat each other is that you have the ability to police the server and take action for the benefit for both you and me. You pay actual money to get that police power. I assist in policing where I can. That's where it ends. Besides those few differences, we're just friends playing a game and having a good time.

 

The other view is this:

 

you are a provider and I am a client of what you provide. Since you pay actual money to get police power, we are not friends but ..... we share a provider/client relationship, subject to termination at any point in time.

 

Interesting thing is, I'll behave the exact same way in both views but I will not have fun in the second view while I'll have a blast in the first.

Edited June 27, 2003 by DJ Premier

[yErMoTH3r]

...Zad (zodd) needs a public server with admin access to facilitate proper slappings if needed

...for a price of course.

 

 

[Mmmm Sanders]

Zadd was prolly one of the best admin slappers around. I bet he laughed and giggled about how many people he tinkled off cause i was one of them...

[Fatty]

What long-standing community member, playing under their real name, has gotten perm banned in the server for doing something weird or off-base in the server? I do believe that in a roundabout way, regs get their due extra chances. I personally, while totally feeling that regs should know the rules, hesitate with someone that I know. Part of the reason is that a newcomer may just not know his way into the banned forums, while the reg perp does and will cry abuse. The other part of the reason is that I really don't want to see regs getting banned.

 

It's a really deep subject, as we're obviously proving. Some believe that regs deserve warnings, just like a newbie. I don't, but I hesitate on regs because internally I hate to ban ANY reg.

 

Good news from X just now on AIM. The first beta of our new plugin is out. If you'd like to see it personally, ask an admin to give you a warning. I can't wait to try it.

[Guest zerodamage]

What long-standing community member, playing under their real name, has gotten perm banned in the server for doing something weird or off-base in the server?  I do believe that in a roundabout way, regs get their due extra chances.

Well this is not true at all. I remember someone tking me a few rounds in a row and me telling him to stop and calling him an a-hole, apologizing immediately afterwards and getting a perm ban. Then after apoligizing in the forums, getting it down to 5 days where everyone else gets it removed immediately. I guess that is how I am treated but the belief that no long-standing community member hasn't been perm banned is false.

[Killer]

wrong thread. Oops

Edited June 28, 2003 by Killer