When is violent video games appropriate?

[ConGregation]

Thought this would make a good discussion considering this board is here only because of violent video games.

 

My son (11) is playing them. First of all I am not one of those people that say violent video games do no have an impact on a person. When I played CS every chance I got I could even feel it. I knew that if I EVER faced a threat and had a gun in my hand I wouldn't think before I had pointed at their head and squeezed off a couple of rounds. It would have been instinct and nothing else. I did it hundreds of times every day virtually.

 

I also feel that violent video games can desensitize us to violence itself. Now this may have an effect on some people but not everyone. Personally I have stayed away from 'ultra' violent games like Doom. I kept it only to 'realistic' violent games like CS and Half Life. For one thing I never like the demon element as a Christian.

 

As an adult (well adjusted I would like to think) I don't think the effect of CS will be detrimental to me. As a father who enjoys (or enjoyed) violent video games, I want to be careful what I allow my son to play. I guess I allowed my children to watch me play. And now my son is really getting into it.

 

I limit his time on the computer (we don't have a console). Two hours everyday. I had allowed him to play bots on CS but he didn't play it a lot and I discouraged it. But because of a friend I allowed him to play on Retrocedence. And now he is becoming obsessed with it. I can relate to this. I was obsessed with it for a long time. And I have to admit that as far as gaming or a 'fun activity', nothing has ever compared to the fun I had playing the game. But it's different for a kid. I wasn't totally healthy for me but I fear it could be detrimental to a young child.

 

I know the argument that a well adjusted young person will not go out and take guns to his school just because he played a violent video game. And I agree... I think. But an obsession like this could make a person become 'unadjusted'.

 

Right now I limit his CS time to one hour. It's hard. Obviously he wants more. And every time he asks for it I go into this long spiel about the effect it can have on him. As a dad who understands the enjoyment of such games, I find it hard to totally take it away. As a dad who cares about the influences my son has in his life, it scares me that I allow it.

 

I realize that popular opinion has no bearing on my decision. There is a right and there is a wrong for my son. But a discussion about this topic is beneficial to everyone involved. Is violent videogames bad for a kid? (if you don't think they have an effect then please explain why because I don't believe you) When is it appropriate for a child to play them? Is one hour of them better than three hours or does the limitation not make any difference at all.

 

I know there are no hard and fast rules. Everyone is different. What do you think about your children playing violent video games?

[Fatty]

I don't play CSS with my girls around, but I've let them play Flat Out 2. With the ragdoll effect in that game, it's enough for Ella to ask "Does that hurt?" Inside I have two thoughts: 1) man, she hasn't completely separated real from fake, and 2) lol, no honey, landing on your head from several hundred feet after plunging through a windshield and then a fake dart board feels great!

 

Of course that's my chance to explain that she's not real and doesn't feel a thing. Now, she's 7, so there's a big difference there. Flat Out 2 has a humor to it, but the people, while there's no blood or weapons, hit the ground end up looking flatlined nevertheless.

 

You can turn off some of the blood in CSS can't you? Can you make it paintball looking?

 

Personally I believe the family, moreover the openess with and guidance of a father figure like you are, has way more impact on a boy than a game could ever have.

[dragonfly]

I stayed away from doom for that reason too (demonic stuff, therefore very uninterested).

 

I really agree that limiting time is a great thing! I was limited for the amount of time I played games as a kid, and looking back on it that was very good for me even though I really wanted to play and got frustrated I couldn't play more. We played perfect dark for 64 and had to turn "paint balls" on to be allowed to play at first.

 

And even though I played a LOT of UT2k4 and video game violence doesn't bother me, I get really grossed out when I see real-life humans hurt. It makes me sick in my stomach to see someones arm broken or a huge cut. I find the news desensitizes me a LOT more than video games. I don't usually watch it for that reason.

[discom]

Just speaking from my experience, the only things that have made me want to do something violent are movies. Violent videos games are still too unrealistic for me to take seriously. For as long as I've played, I'm still sensitive to violence/gore

[Wolfsblood]

Honestly, I believe that there can be no hard, fast rules about whether 1 hour/day is more or less harmful to kids then 3+ hours/day, or whether it makes a difference at all. Really, you and your wife know your son better than any other human could at this stage of his life. You know how you raised him, what things you taught him were right, and what was wrong. He's 11. I'm not sure that my son would be mature enough to play css at 11, but I've got 10 more years to figure that out.

 

Do violent video games desensitize us to violence? Probably. When the rating system came out for music many years ago, I was completely opposed to it, and frequently would buy those records and tapes (yes, I'm old enough to have bought records, tapes, and even 8 tracks ) that had the "Explicit Lyrics" labels simply because "the establishment" thought it was "naughty". Of course, those were the same groups whose music I'd been buying for a long time anyway, so it wasn't like it was much of a change. Now, I don't even notice the stickers, but agree that if it helps a parent "screen" what they buy for their minor child, then I have no problem with it.

 

So, now that I went a bit off track, I'll let you know where I'm heading with this. The rating system for games is a good guideline IMO. It's not perfect, but gives you an idea about what is in the game, what age level the "raters" think is appropriate, and why they gave it the rating they did, violence, language, adult themes, etc. My nephew has been playing css for close to 2 years. He turned 16 in December. I know he played Halo, and numerous other FPS's prior to that on the console, probably many times multiplayer, via xbox live, or whatever. I don't believe it has had a negative effect on him. During that time he also achieved the rank of Eagle Scout, made the school football team, the wrestling team, and plays at least 2 musical instruments. Was there a time when he played it too much? Yes. His grades suffered for a time, but his mom put limits on his playing time, and his grades rebounded.

 

Bottom line is, keep in touch with your children. Know what they like to do. Things like Columbine don't happen because people play video games, they happen because people don't pay attention to what's going on in the lives of the children around them. I know, big words from someone who's son is only 1 year old, but it's the way I was raised. I played D&D from the 6th grade on. Played computer games since Pong and the Atari 2600. The only negative thing I can see is the amount of time I spend playing them, and not doing other things. I still believe that the biggest threat to our children is our neglect of them (intentional or not), not the games they play. If you notice a behaviour change in your children after they play a specific game, or style of game, then you need to make adjustments.

[nut]

Well.. i started my "computer" life at a really really really young age.. Playing Doom. I totally agree where your kid is getting at when he asks for more time to play.. i think the effect it has on kids depends on what type of kid you raise. I was raised to be a polite... and consciouses kid, the downside i see with me and video games is that i wasted time.. when i should have been playing basketball or being outside. If you have zero discipline with your kid and you let him play non stop its an effect... he can be violent... i mean i get where your getting at... but i think your not being unfair... the problem is .. if i ever got kicked off my computer (which is a lot) i could just go over to a friends house and play his xbox..

 

Advice to you would be.. if you feel uncomfortable with letting him play violent games like that... get him into something else... even a console for the time being... because when he grows up he will play them regardless of what you have to say.

 

 

It really just depends... i think it isn't that big of a deal... but thats how i was raised.. that games are FAKE and i never have really applied a ton of those violent tendencies in my life. The thing you need to do is make sure hes not like what my brother used to be... in your room aka Rathole playing 24/7... because it really messes up your life.. and who you are.

[Fatty]

How about we just say no to crap like GTA.....

[VooDooPC]

Just speaking from my experience, the only things that have made me want to do something violent are movies. Violent videos games are still too unrealistic for me to take seriously. For as long as I've played, I'm still sensitive to violence/gore

I'm the same way, beside the movie part. No movies I have seen or games I have played have ever made me think, "Lets go shoot people", or anything like that. I see a clear line between reality and games/movies even though I have seen the goriest of movies and played the goriest games out there. I was watching Terminator when I was 5, blasting zombies in Doom when I was 10, and running down people in GTA 1 when I was 15 and I am still very sensitive to real world violence. Just today I was reading the news about the suicide bombing in Israel, they interviewed a guy who was six feet away from the bomber and he talked about how he was covered with bits of flesh from the bomber. Just reading that made me sick too my stomach.

 

I think the individual person is just as important as age when being exposed to violence. Where's I grew up exposed to violence and turned out fine (I think), I know some people who didn't turn out so well. My nephew who wasn't exposed to any violent movies or games is out of control, hitting other kids to get what he wants, never listening, he even punched his principle at school. I think his case wasn't violence as much as it was just bad parenting. There was the 15 year old kid a few days ago who killed his mother, dad, and two younger brothers because he was arguing with his dad, I wonder how the parenting was in his house or if he was exposed to a lot of violence. Since the kid knew where his dads gun was I am wondering how that happened if it wasn't bad parenting.

 

The moral of my post was I think that violence effecting people has to do with each individual person. Some people aren't effected at all by it and some people are very effected.

[Xterminator]

many good points in this post

 

Reflecting on my own gaming history, I do recall my parents (mainly my dad) limiting my time on the computer playing games, especially when I was in school. He hated seeing me playing games and would always say "shouldn't you be doing school work" or something along those lines. I do recall that gaming was more of a problem for my brother than it was for me. My brother was addicted to gaming (sometimes I still think he is ). When Diablo came out and everyone was online he went bonkers and would be on there for hours on hours. It came to the point where my dad would ask him to get off nicely and my brother would completely ignore him. So my dad would simply flick the power switch. My brother would go insane and start yelling and screaming. But eventually he learned the error of his ways. That's the reason he refuses to get WoW, he doesn't want to fall back into that addiction. I tried WoW during the beta and I got addicted and i only played it for a few hours.

 

But it's not only games that show violence. There's tv show's and movies and comic books and a whole whack of "negative media" as I like to call it that are influences kids all around the world. It comes down a parent deciding right from wrong for their kids. Limiting their game time is a great thing to do. But you have to promote something else to occupy the kid's time. Just saying no you can't play "go watch tv" will not solve the problem. Try to get them hooked on something else but something that will benefit them. My parents got me hooked into music and now it's my biggest hobby. Get the kids into sports, learn about teamwork and stuff like that!

[LoveForPriscillaChan]

on the contrary, i think its good to expose kids to such things while under your supervision (of course, when they are of hte appropriate age). sooner or later, your kid will have to go out into the real world and face these issues; its better if you, as a parent, led them through this and say that "this is bad, that is bad, etc etc" rather than letting their friends voice their opinions

[JackieChan]

For some reason, I never experienced violent video games making me act violent or taking an effect on me. I played LOTS of video games as a kid. Grew up with the SNES and the PC. SNES games housed the "everyone could play" games while my PC offered different types of games you couldn't find on the SNES.

 

For the PC, I grew up playing Doom and Duke Nukem. I guess back then, I could tell the difference between real and fake enough where it wouldn't have an effect on me. I never thought twice about if the "people" I killed in video games or if they felt all the lead I was pumping into them. I guess I never took it seriously enough to really pay attention to the issue.

 

On the other hand, if I was ever in a situation that involved a gun in real life, lots of things would be racing through my mind, I can tell you that much.

[w8t4time]

hard being a parent something I am learning about!?

 

she (my girlfriends daughter) asked me why I like the game (css) because shooting people is wrong (her words) but she also said its just a game and she would rather play something else something fun like neopets lol the game I play is stupid in her words!

 

my girlfriend doesn't restrict anything she will let her daughter watch any movie or anything that some would think is not cool to let a kid watch; but she (her daughter) doesn't like the weird violent stuff anyway she will walk away and play with toys? makes me wonder---- about the cookie bowl theory--- if you say "don't go there!" then they will? over and over to see whats in the cookie bowl? if its no big deal than it is boring real quick and onto other fun stuff?

 

there is no right way to raise a child! our parents and their parents were noobs learning as they went and that is all---- learn as you go!!!!! If a child becomes uncool you adapt and set rules and guidelines and try to show the child good karma and good behavior gets rewarded!

 

addiction (and its many ugly forms) is a whole other ball game that is something that needs direct adult intervention IMO and the signs start at a very young age sometimes addiction is genetic and no good parenting can help or stop a troubled/addicted child? everyone is different and you will find no right or perfect answers here I am sure!

[Saris]

Well, I'm not a parent, but I went through all the bad stages of gaming. Like others here, I've played violent video games all my life, and during my entire childhood it was pretty much my only hobby. I went to school, I came home, I'd play until I went to sleep and repeat. Now, I don't even have a game to play and still haven't for over half a year because it's rare that a game can catch my attention anymore. So, in my opinion, I'm a pretty healthy gamer because I still follow gaming news and play the odd game and participate in this community, and there's a few points I'd agree with here.

 

The important thing you can do is have your son pick up a time-consuming hobby: drawing, writing, music, a sport, etc. I can attribute the very reason I left gaming because I spend all my time doing those things (I learned them all). Don't let him play trash games like GTA, or Kane&Lynch there's nothing good about them. I believe video games can influence the way a child thinks depending on how the parent raises them. I'm no psychologist (well, I am in psych in university) but I'd bet that basic discipline for anything carries over with the child for playing games. They know right from wrong from what you teach them, and to put the games behind them when more important matters like chores, school and family are at hand. That also means limiting their play time, which sucks, because I certainly know what it's like to be grounded when you want to play. So again, the important thing is to make them not want to play for long hours.

 

So in my belief, your simple concern about your son's gaming tells me that you're already caring enough to prevent your child from taking games too far. But simply limiting his time won't prevent him from becoming addicted. And that can be just as serious, and from my own experience, would think that it'd be harder to break too. But there's a thousand things out there to do with your time and I'm sure if you're that worried about it, you'll find something he'd like.

[[LaW]Maverick]

I started watching movies like Terminator 2 and played games like Doom back on my friend's 286. Did it affect me? Aside from giving me a good time, no.

 

The reason it didn't affect me? Every single time I started playing a game, my parents would stop me, sit me down, and very simply explain to me something like this: "These games are NOT real. If you shoot someone with a gun in real life, they do not get back up, and if you fall off a cliff like that, you will be gone forever." They made sure I understood, then let me play.

 

Did they limit my time? Yes, but not strictly and not often. I went out and played sports and my friends and I did the typical crazy outdoors stuff young boys get themselves into. When I have a kid, will I limit his time on video games? Yes, but not strictly. I'll encourage him/her to do other things just to keep his/her tastes broad, but if they're anything like me, and I say "only 1 hour on the computer, son." Then I'll simply be inviting trouble. EVERY SINGLE time my parents did ANYTHING like that, I immediately grew angry with them, and went over to a friend's house to play the same game all day. In other words, all it encouraged me to do was to go behind their back and do it anyway.

 

I'm glad my parents took a different tact with video games. Instead of completely discouraging me and limiting everything, they found games I could learn from and encouraged me to play those. I still played things like Doom, but I also liked Reader Rabbit and this typing game where you had to type the words out fast enough to zap the incoming monsters (you were a wizard in that game). I had a good time, and learned a lot of useful skills (spelling, typing, reading, etc.)

 

I was literally playing video games before I even went to kindergarten--that sort of things happen when your brothers are 10 and 12 years older than you--and I still play them. Does it eat up my free time? Yup. Do I care? Nope. If you think about it you can learn a lot from games.

 

CS:S is helping your son gain hand-eye-coordination that can be translated in to just about anything as well as teaching him simple tactical skills which could be of use some-day, but hopefully not.

Civilization IV, like I'm playing now, offers some loose history lessons, but teaches a lot about establishing a civilization. You have to have food, commerce, security, etc.

 

Fact is, if you keep him away from games that are mindless violence (like GTA) and games that require no thought then while he's playing he's getting smarter in various ways. To be truly good at a strategy game like Master of Orion II or Civ IV, or even something as simple as Starcraft, you have to also be smart. Simple as that.

 

 

Oh, and by the way, make sure you help your kid out on grammar: "When ARE violent video games appropriate?" "Video games" is the plural subject in the sentence and thus "is" should refer to the plural using "are." Hehehe...sorry, couldn't resist.

[bushwack]

I've been playing Doom and Duke type games since my son was 1 yr old. He's seen me play everything form MDK to Prey and Dungeon Keeper to Unreal Tournament. But I never let him play a Teen labled game till recently, well he's almost 13. He bugged me for years to play Doom II and I did let him play some just without the monster. And after years of waiting for the real deal I let him play it a few months ago and all he played it was one day and moved on to something else. Guess it was the cookie jar syndrome.

 

Now he's fiending for his own copy of TF2. The game doesn't bother me it's just the jerks out there with their lang and sprays. I figure we'll pick up a second Orange Box (darn you steam) this weekend and only let him play with me or on our server if he is alone. He's a good kid but right now he's is at that stage where is could be easily persuaded to do things he wouldn't normally do to be cool and fit in. Oh yeah and there will be no mic for him, you can thank me later.

[NOFX]

I can remember being in 5th and 6th grade, going to my room after school, locking my door and playing Doom all night. I was raised to roam free, explore and find out things on my own.. I never had any boundaries and because of this I feel like I learned many things faster..

 

I'm not sure what people think will happen to their kids if they play violent video games... Along with my freedom to play what games I want, my father also taught me right from wrong. Video games have absolutely nothing to do with how a kid is going to turn out when he/she is older, the parent is the one responsible for that. The type of video game should be the least of a parents worries.

Edited February 5, 2008 by NOFX

[NOFX]

I would like to add that I remember being in my room one day with Coolio cranked way up. My dad got mad because I was listening to that crap.. He didn't take it from me, but compared me to a social status and tried to make me feel bad... At the time, I can remember being angry with him because I should be able to listen to what I want to. On this occasion I can see where he was coming from..

Edited February 5, 2008 by NOFX

[Allanon]

Unlike a lot of you other guys, I didn't get my first console till I was 8 when I got a N64. My parents at first discouraged gaming, but whenever I went over to a friend's house I would do nothing but gaming, so they instead allowed me to do it, but set limits. Like all other things in life, moderation is the key...

 

I think that slowly allowing your son to play more violent video games is a more sound strategy then simply opening the door and letting him pick and chose. However, I am also not a parent so none of my advise is very sound. I just think that not being able to play violent video games until I was older and more mature helped, but I don't think that allowing him to play CSS under 13 is a mistake. I remember when my mom finally let me get UT when I was 15 and how I excited I was be able to play it. Video games really gave me a way to go to places I could never go on my own. Did I play too much during high school? Probably, but I really think that most of it has been for the better.

 

Congregation, you know your son better then anyone here, and from what I've seen in the forums and in game you are more then a reasonable, dedicated person who believes in good values and morales. If you think he's ready for video games I think that putting on a time restraint is not terrible, but I think that banning could make it worse. As an example I have a friend who's dad is very against video games and still does not let him have a console (he's 18)... his mom was the one who finally let him have one, but I fear that once he's on his own in college he will do nothing but play games as his parents are the ones who make him do things like homework, study, etc.

 

 

Hopefully I didn't just spew out meaningless nonsense.

 

 

Allanon

Edited February 6, 2008 by Allanon

[Ringadon]

People who claim that violent video games have 0 effect are wrong, however people who claim that it is the cause of all the world's problems are also wrong. The problem isn't just with the video games that people play but with the instruction as to right and wrong that they receive. So as it is I agree with Allanon here, letting your kid play violent games isn't necessarily a bad thing but you need to help him know that it's just a game and actions taken in the game aren't all right in the real world most of the time. (I say most of the time here because some games do have positive concepts in them mixed in with all the killing)

 

I'm thankful that my folks kept me a little farther away from violent games when I was younger, it helped me turn out to be the man that I am today.

 

Ring

 

P.S. I'm a little sad that Mavrick beat me to the grammar police job but he's right.

[Laz.e.rus]

Hm.

I DO think violent video games can have a negative effect. But theres a catch. I also feel that pretty much ANYTHING taken in too-large portions will have a negative effect.

Playing a game for a little wind down and some fun would have little to no effect on the average person I believe. but if that same person lets it take over their life to the point of that being all they think about...thats bad.

 

But this same situation would be bad with Doom, CSS, everquest, WOW, Chat rooms, Mario cart, movies (any kind), paper-style Dungeons and Dragons, Poker.... etc etc

 

For example: I always got a kick out of it when it was the paper games in the hot seat instead of video games.

"See! This game made this kid kill this guy!"

 

Well, A group of friends getting together and socializing and having fun in a safe atmosphere is NEVER bad.

If one of those guys is obsessing on the game (or whatever) and its all they think about at home, at school, at work.... They WILL be mal-adjusted and who knows what else is wrong and getting worse with their psyche?

 

Way back there was plenty of violence..check out John Wayne! Wars, killin injuns, etc etc. They didnt have the special effects we do now... but its ALWAYS been here, always will be, and the only diff is what a person does with it.

 

The kid that wouls stab someone because of D&D is the same kid that would shoot classmates cuz of CSS, cut someones throat cuz of Vampyre, chop someone up cuz of WOW, or kill theyre parent cuz Ozzy Osborne told them too.

 

Congregation: Remember way back when kids would watch WW2 movies or Godzilla or Kung foo movies then act them out or get some cool play guns to play war, etc etc?

Nothings changed except the medium that delivers it.

 

Good parenting and paying attention and being a PART of the real world are the only things that will ever counteract ANY kind of negative influence.

[Saris]

Nothings changed except the medium that delivers it.

 

Good parenting and paying attention and being a PART of the real world are the only things that will ever counteract ANY kind of negative influence.

Case closed.

[Gond]

Interesting convo there...I don't let my daughter (who is 9) even watch violent games. I do have a slightly different opinion than you ConGregation...I feel it's less of an issue for a kid to be running around shooting demons & monsters because it's easier to seperate that in real life...but every child is different. My nephews have been playing games like this all their lives. Only shooter my daughter plays is Lego Star Wars:)

[dragonfly]

What counts is never letting your kids listen to rap. It's just unhealthy.

[Windex]

i know i was playing doom before windows.. so i was probably 9ish when i started in on the "violent" games.. they were just fun even then i knew it wasn't real it was more of a competitive thing for me.. me and my uncle would do deathmatch over the modem (ahh the good ole days) but yeah i'm a perfectly normal person.. i think the upbringing has more to do with it than anything.

[Dr.cLaShiZ]

My son (11) is playing them. First of all I am not one of those people that say violent video games do no have an impact on a person. When I played CS every chance I got I could even feel it. I knew that if I EVER faced a threat and had a gun in my hand I wouldn't think before I had pointed at their head and squeezed off a couple of rounds. It would have been instinct and nothing else. I did it hundreds of times every day virtually.

 

When the flood invade Earth you will be damn proud of that instinct..